Healers need an overhaul

[Droxybrobotnik]

Not necessarily rotations. Keeping the role identities matters, but i'd be all for giving healers more procc options. The problem is that if you increase their dps without affecting their healing output then you essentially buff the role and have to adjust the rest of the endgame content around that, and if you make it a choice then you will see people posting about healers not doing their job. Overall, it's not worth the effort to appease the minority of people who feel that endgame is not keeping them busy enough with healing. Not to mention people who raids savages are already a minority..

[Recon1o6]

Not necessarily rotations. Keeping the role identities matters, but i'd be all for giving healers more procc options. The problem is that if you increase their dps without affecting their healing output then you essentially buff the role and have to adjust the rest of the endgame content around that, and if you make it a choice then you will see people posting about healers not doing their job. Overall, it's not worth the effort to appease the minority of people who feel that endgame is not keeping them busy enough with healing. Not to mention people who raids savages are already a minority..

Once again

We are not asking for more damage

We asking for more damage BUTTONS for the same level of damage total. Instead of glare x10 to get 3000 potency, have Aero 3 for 1200, stone x4 for 800, water x2 for 400 and glare for 600 to get a total of 3000 potency

[ty_taurus]

Once again

We are not asking for more damage

We asking for more damage BUTTONS for the same level of damage total. Instead of glare x10 to get 3000 potency, have Aero 3 for 1200, stone x4 for 800, water x2 for 400 and glare for 600 to get a total of 3000 potency

To follow up on this, it's also important to note that the frequency of DPS vs healing has literally nothing to do with how many DPS buttons healers have. WHM could have 101 DPS buttons and it would do nothing to change the frequency of healing needed.

There are two things that influence the frequency of needed healing: How much damage is done by the boss to the party, and how many free OGCD healing options the healer has to handle those. OGCD healing is inherently superior due to not having an opportunity cost, and thus the more of it we have, the less we need to stop and heal with our GCD and MP. Adding a simple-yet deep DPS rotation to each healer would have exactly 0 effect on this. It would just give healers a more engaging set of tools to play with while healing isn't needed.

[HyoMinPark]

Not necessarily rotations. Keeping the role identities matters, but i'd be all for giving healers more procc options. The problem is that if you increase their dps without affecting their healing output then you essentially buff the role and have to adjust the rest of the endgame content around that, and if you make it a choice then you will see people posting about healers not doing their job. Overall, it's not worth the effort to appease the minority of people who feel that endgame is not keeping them busy enough with healing. Not to mention people who raids savages are already a minority..

Please read the actual arguments that healers are making before you respond.

We are not asking for increased DPS for healers.
We are asking for a more in-depth DPS system for healers.
In other words, more DPS BUTTONS for healers.
More DPS buttons =/= wanting to deal higher damage.

In all my time in the healer forums on here—which is a lot—I’ve rarely seen healers ask to deal more damage. That’s not the argument we are making. If anything, we always argued wanting to HEAL MORE, but the developers will not let us heal more because then new healers/baby healers would be “too stressed out”, and heaven forbid there’s any sort of “stress” involved with anything in this game.

We spend 80% of our time—if not more—in ALL FORMS OF CONTENT (read: not just Savage raids) dealing damage, so why not at least make it a bit more interesting than Glare/Malefic/Broil/Dosis 100+ times during a single encounter.

This is not to appease those nasty raiders.
This is for ALL HEALERS because even the NON-RAIDER HEALERS are getting bored spamming one button.

If anything, NON-RAIDER HEALERS have it worse than RAID HEALERS do because casual content is not even that demanding—to the point where CASUAL HEALERS don’t even use their entire kit. I can do entire pieces of content without touching things like Macrocosmos, Seraph, Pneuma, and Lilybell because the content simply does not ask for that much healing. Even Savage borders on that, since I use Pneuma maybe once or twice in any given fight—and sometimes it’s still an overheal.

I am beyond exhausted seeing these “not everyone wants Savage-level content”/“it’s not worth it to overhaul for the minority of players” arguments. They completely miss the point of what healers on here are even saying. And really, this goes for all roles. Asking for some kind of engagement or a little bit of complexity for a job/role does not equate to asking for ANYTHING to be Savage-levels of challenging. It’s not that black and white. You can have engagement and complexity somewhere between “drool on keyboard easy” and “finger gymnastics/concert pianist/Math Lady Meme hard”.

[einschwartz]

If anything, NON-RAIDER HEALERS have it worse than RAID HEALERS do because casual content is not even that demanding—to the point where CASUAL HEALERS don’t even use their entire kit.

Non raider here. It's true.
Even in Shadowbringers I forgot Seraph (a level cap skill!) exist at one point because I barely even need it.
And now, Expedient another level cap skill that I often forget except when running from one boss to the next in Aglaia.\

I have to constantly remind myself these skills exist and I could use it.

[Punslinger]

Overall, it's not worth the effort to appease the minority of people who feel that endgame is not keeping them busy enough with healing. Not to mention people who raids savages are already a minority..

*headdesk*

Savage raiders spend 60%+ of every raid spamming one button. What do you think happens in easier content?

Do...do you think more healing is somehow needed in easier content? How do you not understand that healing being boring in Savage and Ultimate means that healing is also boring everywhere else?!

I don't raid Savage. I quit healing three years ago because it was incredibly boring. Dungeon bosses are a joke. 24-mans only need healing when it's an absolute clownfest. MSQing as a healer is a prescription-strength sleep aid (you can't heal mobs to death, y'know). Tanks now have so much self-sustain that healers are flat-out unnecessary in most content. Literally only two current fights in the game require healers: P3S and P4S.

Why do you think healers should be happy about this? Why should healers accept being unnecessary and boring to play in 99% of the game? The only reason, the only reason, I can come up with is that you lot want healing to be the ticket to a free, zero-effort carry through content.

From now on, "If you want to DPS, play a DPS," should be answered with, "If you want to mindlessly press one button to win, play Cookie Clicker."

[Droxybrobotnik]

*headdesk*

Savage raiders spend 60%+ of every raid spamming one button. What do you think happens in easier content?

Do...do you think more healing is somehow needed in easier content? How do you not understand that healing being boring in Savage and Ultimate means that healing is also boring everywhere else?!

I don't raid Savage. I quit healing three years ago because it was incredibly boring. Dungeon bosses are a joke. 24-mans only need healing when it's an absolute clownfest. MSQing as a healer is a prescription-strength sleep aid (you can't heal mobs to death, y'know). Tanks now have so much self-sustain that healers are flat-out unnecessary in most content. Literally only two current fights in the game require healers: P3S and P4S.

Why do you think healers should be happy about this? Why should healers accept being unnecessary and boring to play in 99% of the game? The only reason, the only reason, I can come up with is that you lot want healing to be the ticket to a free, zero-effort carry through content.

From now on, "If you want to DPS, play a DPS," should be answered with, "If you want to mindlessly press one button to win, play Cookie Clicker."

I feel like you're not at all getting what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that either they increase healer dps by giving it more offensive skills or split the dps is already has into more skills. First option requires further balancing, since if you up the dps in any content, esp endgame, you also need to up the boss if you don't want to nerf it by increasing the dps, and in the second they work goes into making it more complex for the sake of increasing complexity. Wether there is a big enough demand for it to actually put the effort in I can't tell. Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

[MintnHoney]

Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

It's in the title of the thread, lmao.

[Droxybrobotnik]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content. If you revamp them you need to revamp a lot more than just 4 classes. Again I say, I simply don't see the demand for it to be worth so much work and time sunk into it. Feel free to prove me, and more importantly square, wrong.

[MintnHoney]

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content.

No, the Tanks are the backbones of any challenging content, and the DPS are the ribs and meat. The Healers are just the fat, and tend to get trimmed almost immediately. Case in point: the increasing amount of encounters that are being done, even current content, where healers are proven to be unnecessary.
While we're at it, we're going into a phase where they want to make the game more single-player friendly. Healers are not built for that kind of experience, as we know from having so many people admit "you should play a DPS class for story, not a healer" as an answer for how we might fix healer gameplay issues in solo content. "Just don't play them" is not a good answer to fixing them.