Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[Liohna]

Hi Celesti,

can i be added too?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...97#post5921297

[CelestiCer]

Hi Celesti,

can i be added too?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...97#post5921297

Hai Lionhna, I just woke up xD and I read your post. I will make sure you're added mhm. Lets hope our voice together will be heard

[Liohna]

Hai Lionhna, I just woke up xD and I read your post. I will make sure you're added mhm. Lets hope our voice together will be heard

Thanks for that and the efforts you put on this post

Let's pray to be heard

[FlareVyzar]

Good to see many posts about the change. Also thanks for compiling all of them together Celesti.

[beatts]

I'm late to the party (only play pretty casually for MSQ and occasional group content) but I was so very sad and disappointed when I logged in after the patch and discovered they made my main job feel less fun and awkward to play.

To echo what everyone else has said: Hissatsu: Kaiten is a fun button to press. You twirl your sword around and power up for a big attack. It's awesome. And it even feels a bit skillful to use because you have to use it at the right time and make sure you're going to have enough kenki to press it when you need it.

There's not as much uproar about the change to Tenka Goken, but I really hope this change is reverted as well. I loved using the frontal cone attack.

The 360 degree version:

a) feels bad to use for some reason -- probably because the shorter range but same "shockwave" animation plays when the cast completes, but because the travel distance is so reduced, you barely see the shockwaves.
b) now has a clipped/awkward animation that contributes more to the move feeling unsatisfying.

The developers overall on this game are great, but these changes are surely a mistake. I have no idea how these abilities and their removal/alteration impact the game balance, and I don't care. You could nerf either or both moves to be less effective for all I care, but why make both the single target and multi-target rotations less fun to do? I'm humbly begging the devs to change their minds on this. Since I discovered these changes, I've had little interest in playing the game. I'm trying some other jobs but I don't see myself sticking with them very long.

[cjbeagle]

(re: Tenka Goken)

The 360 degree version:

a) feels bad to use for some reason -- probably because the shorter range but same "shockwave" animation plays when the cast completes, but because the travel distance is so reduced, you barely see the shockwaves.
b) now has a clipped/awkward animation that contributes more to the move feeling unsatisfying.

What you say is true, but I think there's even more to it:
- Making Tenka Goken circular, combined with Fuko now making our AOE combo starter circular, means our entire AOE rotation is now circular - we no longer need to reposition for various attacks at all, which makes the entire AOE rotation less engaging, Tenka Goken included.
- Without having to reposition for Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without having Kaiten to use before Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without Kaiten, Tenka Goken's effective potency is massively diminished, destroying the anticipation by destroying the payoff.
- With the massive nerf to Kaeshi: Goken's potency, the anticipation for Tenka Goken's Tsubame-gaeshi is destroyed by destroying the payoff. (reduced from 420 to 280.)

[beatts]

(re: Tenka Goken)


What you say is true, but I think there's even more to it:
- Making Tenka Goken circular, combined with Fuko now making our AOE combo starter circular, means our entire AOE rotation is now circular - we no longer need to reposition for various attacks at all, which makes the entire AOE rotation less engaging, Tenka Goken included.
- Without having to reposition for Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without having Kaiten to use before Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without Kaiten, Tenka Goken's effective potency is massively diminished, destroying the anticipation by destroying the payoff.
- With the massive nerf to Kaeshi: Goken's potency, the anticipation for Tenka Goken's Tsubame-gaeshi is destroyed by destroying the payoff. (reduced from 420 to 280.)

Yes, this is all very well said and I agree 100%. I had thoughts along these lines as well when I first tested SAM after the patch, but didn't think of posting in the forums until now and I'd forgotten some of these details.

But this is such an important point. It's not just that the new version feels bad in and of itself, but that it's so much less interesting compared to what we had before. Just as you say, the dynamic of side-stepping the fray while powering up with kaiten, and then once in position unleashing the shockwave...it was fun. It looked cool, it felt cool. The new tenka goken is a button I press in my rotation (sometimes twice when tsubame-gaeshi is up,) and just have faith that some damage occurs. If I didn't know how MMO ability rotations worked and didn't have access to damage numbers or tooltips, I'd probably ignore it entirely in my AOE rotation because the basic attacks feel more impactful.

[Theodric_Thorne]

How long does the list of threads need to get before SE issues some kind of response? The radio silence on this issue is absolutely deafening. I'm not saying we need this turned around in a matter of days, but some kind of acknowledgement on their part wouldn't take anywhere near as much time and effort to put together as an actual patch.

[xAFROx]

How long does the list of threads need to get before SE issues some kind of response? The radio silence on this issue is absolutely deafening. I'm not saying we need this turned around in a matter of days, but some kind of acknowledgement on their part wouldn't take anywhere near as much time and effort to put together as an actual patch.

No clue, but a response is really all i want from them in the immediate to near (read:1 month) future to address this in some way shape or form. I don't want to make a witch hunt like their patch notes stream seemed to be going for by demanding whoever responsible to come forward. I want an answer to why this was done (an actual answer, not what we got in that stream).

Trying to play the only thing I leveled to cap when I don't log on nearly as much as I used to is just frustrating.

[CelestiCer]

How long does the list of threads need to get before SE issues some kind of response? The radio silence on this issue is absolutely deafening. I'm not saying we need this turned around in a matter of days, but some kind of acknowledgement on their part wouldn't take anywhere near as much time and effort to put together as an actual patch.

" Patience is a virtue ", and ours are being sorely tested... With housing lottery? PvP hacks? Content release? With so many other things, Job Feedback is probably put at the bottom of their priority list. Sucks, but I am going to guess that's the case.

On a sidenote, I am going to attempt overtime to reorder the threads listed " Chronologically " from Pre-6.1 to Post-6.1. Genuinely curious how many voices Square ignored when it comes to not implementing the changes like Kaiten Removal even before the update hit.