Compiled SAM threads against 6.1 changes / Kaiten removal

[cjbeagle]

(re: Tenka Goken)

The 360 degree version:

a) feels bad to use for some reason -- probably because the shorter range but same "shockwave" animation plays when the cast completes, but because the travel distance is so reduced, you barely see the shockwaves.
b) now has a clipped/awkward animation that contributes more to the move feeling unsatisfying.

What you say is true, but I think there's even more to it:
- Making Tenka Goken circular, combined with Fuko now making our AOE combo starter circular, means our entire AOE rotation is now circular - we no longer need to reposition for various attacks at all, which makes the entire AOE rotation less engaging, Tenka Goken included.
- Without having to reposition for Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without having Kaiten to use before Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without Kaiten, Tenka Goken's effective potency is massively diminished, destroying the anticipation by destroying the payoff.
- With the massive nerf to Kaeshi: Goken's potency, the anticipation for Tenka Goken's Tsubame-gaeshi is destroyed by destroying the payoff. (reduced from 420 to 280.)

[beatts]

(re: Tenka Goken)


What you say is true, but I think there's even more to it:
- Making Tenka Goken circular, combined with Fuko now making our AOE combo starter circular, means our entire AOE rotation is now circular - we no longer need to reposition for various attacks at all, which makes the entire AOE rotation less engaging, Tenka Goken included.
- Without having to reposition for Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without having Kaiten to use before Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without Kaiten, Tenka Goken's effective potency is massively diminished, destroying the anticipation by destroying the payoff.
- With the massive nerf to Kaeshi: Goken's potency, the anticipation for Tenka Goken's Tsubame-gaeshi is destroyed by destroying the payoff. (reduced from 420 to 280.)

Yes, this is all very well said and I agree 100%. I had thoughts along these lines as well when I first tested SAM after the patch, but didn't think of posting in the forums until now and I'd forgotten some of these details.

But this is such an important point. It's not just that the new version feels bad in and of itself, but that it's so much less interesting compared to what we had before. Just as you say, the dynamic of side-stepping the fray while powering up with kaiten, and then once in position unleashing the shockwave...it was fun. It looked cool, it felt cool. The new tenka goken is a button I press in my rotation (sometimes twice when tsubame-gaeshi is up,) and just have faith that some damage occurs. If I didn't know how MMO ability rotations worked and didn't have access to damage numbers or tooltips, I'd probably ignore it entirely in my AOE rotation because the basic attacks feel more impactful.

[FrogBiscuit]

(re: Tenka Goken)


What you say is true, but I think there's even more to it:
- Making Tenka Goken circular, combined with Fuko now making our AOE combo starter circular, means our entire AOE rotation is now circular - we no longer need to reposition for various attacks at all, which makes the entire AOE rotation less engaging, Tenka Goken included.
- Without having to reposition for Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without having Kaiten to use before Tenka Goken, we lost a facet of anticipation preceding it.
- Without Kaiten, Tenka Goken's effective potency is massively diminished, destroying the anticipation by destroying the payoff.
- With the massive nerf to Kaeshi: Goken's potency, the anticipation for Tenka Goken's Tsubame-gaeshi is destroyed by destroying the payoff. (reduced from 420 to 280.)

100%

This might be a slightly exaggerated situation, but after the changes to Kaiten and Tenka Goken, I have effectively gone from being engaged while I play SAM, paying attention to important factors like resources, placement/position and GCDs...

To essentially glancing at the screen at times to make sure I am in range of an enemy, mash some buttons in a similar rotation, while I watch Futurama to relieve the fact that I am bored out of my mind playing a class that just a little while ago was a main, primary reason I played FFXIV in the first due to how engaging and enjoyable it was.

[cjbeagle]

I am bored out of my mind playing a class that just a little while ago was a main, primary reason I played FFXIV in the first due to how engaging and enjoyable it was.

100%

Samurai was the only dps that I really adored, but now it feels so hollow that I've stopped playing it completely.

I'm trying to main dancer as a replacement, but I find myself uninspired to play as dps at all, which is/was my favorite role, and because of that, my overall motivation to engage in PVE content as a whole is greatly diminished.

With my lack of inspiration to do PVE content, I've been doing a lot more PVP. Last night I tried out monk for the first time in Crystalline Conflict.

Have you tried monk in Crystalline Conflict? It's a blast, but I bring it up because it turns out that PVP monk has an OGCD that buffs your next weaponskill by 50%. Sounds like something that PVE samurai might enjoy.

[FrogBiscuit]

Admittedly I have not yet.

I have largely still been playing SAM in Crystalline Conflict as I still feel the theme of SAM there, funny enough. Yes PvP is largely different, but the excitement of hitting like a semi-truck still exists there. It has been a small placebo for the whole debacle and not really using my SAM for PvE much since.

That said, I had a friend suggesting I try either drg or mnk in PvP and its on my list.

It is amusing (in the ironic sense) that MNK effectively inherited some of the SAM theme in that way.