The general direction of job changes is straight asinine. Literally NO ONE benefits.

[JacobNewblood]

Now, don't hit us with psychology and "human doesn't like change" lecture. SMN went from piano to snoozefest: The only decision a SMN needs to make every fight is "is it safe to stay still 5s to cast 2 red ruins, and then go to melee for 5s ?", every 60s or so. We had DoTs timings, Demi summons attacking in sync with us, DWT and Bahamut separated from each other so we have more flexibility over our burst phase, on-demand mobility and resource pooling with assaults and Ruin 4, and overall more oGCD buttons to press. For reference, I needed to lower my GCD as low as 2.23s with current SMN to match the number of actions per minute I used to do in 5.X at 2.48s.

The most crippling AI dumbfckery was ghosting when we summoned a demi too fast after a pet action, and it wasn't even fixed with the rework. They had to rework Searing Light entirely so we cast it directly, which they could have done back in july 2019. The other AI issues were pretty minor, like Phoenix ghosting its 8th Scarlet Flame because it spent too much time casting its AoE heal.

Lastly, we "old mains" don't necessarily want old SMN back, we just want a SMN that plays as a lvl 90 job, not a lvl 60. On the other hand, it makes the job attractive to a lot more people now, it's just sad for the couple of nerds that loved the playstyle. Bonus kek point : lvl 90 capstone ability is really just a flashier version of our lvl 30 ability with 100 potency on top.

This, I played SMN from the end of Stormblood on.
When SHB came, I was happy to see the direction SMN went,
Was it a bit Janky? Yeah, it can be. Was I the best? No. But it was fun!
There was so much build-up to your Demis with gaining Ruin 4s.
Felt good to play right and "master." I loved the pet autos.

Then Endwalker Came.
Don't get me wrong; I don't hate this version; I just miss the old.

If I were to do something to SMN come EW, id give it the SCH faerie treatment+6.1,

Make the pet more responsive
make Searing come from us.
Make the Demis not follow us like lost puppies when summoned and stay still as they do now and auto themselves
make the Astral-based ruins we get from Bahamut come when we actually summon him with cast times and give us back Trance Spell speed Rasing and abilities.
~
That would remove Ghosting searing light and make the pet only responsible for its assaults if it was still ShB style.
It would reduce losing a demi auto cause they do already
will keep SMN mobile,
give us more gosh darn buttons to press
Keep da DoTs; they were fun to play with IMO (It doesn't matter to me too much)

TLDR:
They went overboard with the SMN rework. While it is nice, I do not hate it; I miss the old summoner. All they needed to do was give the pets the Faerie treatment, make searing come from us, and make the demise work the way they do now. There is no build-up anymore. It does not feel as satisfying.

[AziraSyuren]

The Ninja changes actually don't make it feel much different. I guess there's some added calculus with ninki but that feels like the kind of clunky thing a lot of people here would confuse with good game design. Having a 60s burst window instead of 120 was kinda neat but that's all it was.

Sucks about SAM though.

[LauraAdalena]

The Ninja changes actually don't make it feel much different. I guess there's some added calculus with ninki but that feels like the kind of clunky thing a lot of people here would confuse with good game design. Having a 60s burst window instead of 120 was kinda neat but that's all it was.

Sucks about SAM though.

While not much different, it’s a nice change to actually fit your entire opener with the extra 5 seconds buff window. They added GCDs but you had to somehow fit all that in 15 seconds. It’s a welcome change in my eyes.

However, I do not understand those in the field of “this feels like crap.” In all honesty I absolutely disagree. While yes every other job has become “buff button press”, it will help with less practiced or skilled players still being able to get the buff up like normal with a lot less drift and less chiding from those who have more experience. And I think 5% for 20 seconds even if it’s just 2 minutes feels absolutely gorgeous on the ninja’s end and the rest of the party’s. As for the actual gameplay, unless you were able to fit all of your GCDs into 15 seconds I don’t know how this feels worse when it’s the same rotation with a button or two swapped and 5 seconds more to fit it all in. I’m actually quite open to bigger buff windows. In fact I feel like they’re better for both skill floor and ceiling.

[SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep]

Lmfao.

of course then in comes the SE white knight shills armed with stacks and stacks of strawmen and words to shove into others' mouth.

I literally said lowering the floor is fine, if not great. You like simple rotation? Good for you. Old SMN floor was too high? Sure. Put in an auto mode where the game plays itself for you.

If you are happy with the jobs now, THAT IS GREAT. We are asking for more spice to be added on top of it while keeping the base the same. (Or not take away the ones already there.)

Literally, 99% of the argument on the forum for or against the changes are irrelevant to the casual players who they are pandering to. Yet somehow, SE and these shills are absolutely fucking dead set on making these changes with them in mind.

[Sequora]

I made the switch to red mage. The EW changes honestly made it the perfect job.

Does everything that SMN can do better, and I would argue that the visuals are better.

Rez feels like an actual utility on red mage because I don’t need swift cast.

Rotation has just enough complexity.

[aloneatsea]

While not much different, it’s a nice change to actually fit your entire opener with the extra 5 seconds buff window. They added GCDs but you had to somehow fit all that in 15 seconds. It’s a welcome change in my eyes.

However, I do not understand those in the field of “this feels like crap.” In all honesty I absolutely disagree. While yes every other job has become “buff button press”, it will help with less practiced or skilled players still being able to get the buff up like normal with a lot less drift and less chiding from those who have more experience. And I think 5% for 20 seconds even if it’s just 2 minutes feels absolutely gorgeous on the ninja’s end and the rest of the party’s. As for the actual gameplay, unless you were able to fit all of your GCDs into 15 seconds I don’t know how this feels worse when it’s the same rotation with a button or two swapped and 5 seconds more to fit it all in. I’m actually quite open to bigger buff windows. In fact I feel like they’re better for both skill floor and ceiling.

Trick is still 15 seconds, though. The changes haven't done anything about making your burst fit into Trick -- it just so happens that there's another party buff going on at the same time. It's no different from having an extra Red Mage or Dancer in the party, really.


I only play Ninja myself, but from what I've heard the changes are a lot less nice for jobs that enjoyed putting one-minute burst and cooldowns into old Trick.

There's definitely many more (imo cursed) mini-optimisations for Ninja now, but any job at all which has one-minute burst or excess gauge it was able to pool has just lost a whole minute's worth of skill ceiling.

I don't think anyone is complaining about Mug being twenty seconds. It's a well-considered change, given how we want to use Mug, Trick, and Bunshin in our opener. The problem is that Mug now does two different things that we may not want to happen at the same time, and we lost what many consider a core element of Ninja for it.

Why it feels "crap" is because of Ninki gain already being a right mess, with the one optimisation we had to somewhat improve it being taken away. It feels bad being the only job that can't adequately build up gauge in preparation for burst. You're capped at 60 Ninki for two-minute windows. That feels pretty wretched, honestly.

[Sarantserel]

My issue with the trick/mug change is as a non NIN player. I missed the shake up playing with a NIN brought. As a RDM player, making sure I had a burst combo ready every minute instead of just pooling for the 2min mark made things more dynamic.

Made me realize how much I miss ShB having various buff timing. I played DRG during Eden and 90s Lance charge, 120s dragon sight and 180s litany made the rotation feel more dynamic with various points of power spikes before the 6min reopener. Also meant we dynamically adjusted our life timings instead of doing them the same way every time like we have to do now.

[marelooke]

I agree 100%. I started playing in 3.3, back when (compared to now at least) you had to have a physics degree to play any job. The tutorials sucked ass back then too. I sucked. I was a warrior main and I didn't know what a cooldown was. I didn't know what enmity was. I didn't know you could pull multiple packs in a dungeon. I didn't know what item level was. I'm currently a purple parsing savage raider. If players want to improve, they'll improve. Dumbing down the game as much as they have is only making people like me more likely to unsub. I've literally never let my sub lapse or unsubbed. Depending on what happens in 6.2 I may unsub and only resub for story.

Yeah, I'm not too fond of the WAR changes, and I absolutely hate the change to Overpower. Haven't really bothered tanking anything that requires AoE since it feels so so insanely bad. 6.1 was just full of truly unnecessary changes that appear to be there just so people don't have to put in even the absolute minimal amount of effort to learn a new job.

Just waiting for DRG to get gutted as well, since anything other than a circle is apparently "too hard".

[Teno]

You're right....I don't use DPS meters...i'm on PS5. And yet....I can still play competently and pass current relevant content.

We have a SMN and MCH in our static raid, from what they say (I can't see the numbers...again PS5), that our MCH is the top DPS in our static. He seems to thoroughly enjoy the job and he has been playing it for almost 4 years. The SMN decided to main the job simply because it was IDK....better to play now? "It's not a janky mess anymore.", his words. And I agree.

MNK players that I have played with have warmed up to the new MNK (myself included), and I'm am actually curious about it so I ask them in party chat. "Hey, you like MNK now?" It's always the same answer. "At first it sucked and I was upset about the changes. But after I relearn all the muscle memory the job is stupid fun!"

Healers in my static have never complained about DPSing. In fact they literally compete over who does the most DPS, and I just shake my head. That's like saying I just don't want to be last....or 2nd to last.

Of course healers won't complain about dpsing, ask them instead if they ENJOY pressing the same button ad nauseum. If they do they're trolling. The competition is only about missing the least amount of dps GCDs, the rest is gear dependant, that's it. Not much depth.

[FrogBiscuit]

So, not every "Veteran Player" is upset.

• Not actually even responding to the quoted posters post. Check.
• Not accurately representing the posters perspective in a desperate attempt to construct effectively a failing argument. Check.
• Relying on entirely pointless and assumed factors that are entirely unrelated to the discussion to thoughtlessly dismiss a point of view you simply don't agree with. Check
• Clearly missed the point of bringing up the subject of tutorials, as the OP was suggesting if there were better tutorials, maybe they wouldn't feel the need to make class mechanics brain dead as can be, but way to go and effectively reinforce the very point you were snidely attacking. Check

Where did SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep ever state 'all veteran players'? Can you point it out to me? Or are you just being hypocritical with your own exaggerations to do nothing more then callously dismiss opposing opinions? Did you join the conversation to actually discuss the topic? Or to just childishly shout at pretty much everyone else in here that they are all wrong?


Thanks for your anecdotal stance of 'every thing is fine'. I am sure a great business model for SE to take is to strictly cater to you and what you find is 'fine'. Obviously the subscriptions of the vast number of players (world over, JP, US, and EU) that clearly disagree with you are not nearly as valuable as your sub... Right?


Or if you arn't a person that insists the entire world revolves around you, do you actually want to take part of the conversation? Or just troll? Everyone else expressed themselves and why they feel about the changes as they do. You only came in here and disingenuously incorrectly represent people's words, casually dismiss their criticisms with little more then a 'Well, I am ALSO an elitest... and everything is fine, so you are wrong.', and make entirely presumptuous arguments...

What a hypocritical, self defeating child...