Yoshi's post about client server and cheating

[tachi]

①The time it takes to communicate between the client and server

　　　⇒This can take up to 0.3 seconds for transferring packets, plus the response time.
　　　　As an online game, this is unavoidable. (In order to prevent cheating, we cannot use the client only)

In order to prevent cheating, we cannot use the client only

^That is the part that makes me VERY concerned. The original FFXIV at launch was coded in such a way that is nearly impossible to hack (yay great no hackerz!) but then we all deal with the millions of headaches this causes us every day. Examples:

• Trading limit of 4 items
• No mail system
• Server checks on moving items: when you move an item to the retainer it checks if the action is valid with the server in Japan at every step this is why it feel soooooo sloooowwww when you move items. Most MMO's validate an action when the process is done or after each major step. And utilize the client for many of the smaller in between steps to speed up the process.
• Activation of abilities and the on screen effect, all server side. The slower connection you have the more the battle system feels slugish.

I'm not saying I want to play an action RPG that is 100% client side and full of exploits/hacks. But I worry that Yoshi will make the same mistakes that Tanaka did and make "Bot/hack prevention (aka all server side processing)" take priority over "client/user response and convenience".

Would be really great to hear that they are going to greatly improve/totally fix these issues and re-write this code so that the game is not 100% server side like it is now for 2.0 There is no way you can get rid of that laggy feel w/o making some portions of the game client side its just impossible with our current global internet connections.

To my knowledge they have not commented on this at all except the standard "the current system is unable to handle the changes (mail/LS actions/trade)" <yes these things are going to be fixed with the new engine but it should also be through more client side processing.

[Molly_Millions]

Trading limitations and the lack of mail system have nothing to do with certain pieces of code being client or server side. I'm not sure why they are mentioned here.

[Colino]

We've been told version 2.0 will use way less server checks (particularly on stuff like actions and movement) that SHOULD reduce latency.

I can't be bothered to find the exact quote but I'm fairly certain I read that somewhere.

[Alhanelem]

^That is the part that makes me VERY concerned. The original FFXIV at launch was coded in such a way that is nearly impossible to hack (yay great no hackerz!) but then we all deal with the millions of headaches this causes us every day. Examples

You should be happy, not concerned.

Go play a game like MapleStory, where the client is in total charge of almost everything, including calculating damage. Yeah, that's a great idea! Even with their hacking prevention tool designed to detect unauthorized programs, people are still easily able to hack and cheat.

You can't do that in a game like FFXI or FFXIV where the information that the client is trusted with is low.

• Trading limit of 4 items
• No mail system

Neither of these have ANYTHING to do with the information the client is trusted or not trusted with. You're sitll going to get a mail system, just not until 2.0.

[Coldfire]

There is lots of hackers in and hacks for this game. Their precautions failed, their client fails, their netcode fails. Ruining the gameplay in order to prevent cheating is just ultra sad and a really really bad decision. It's what got them the bad press after all. Imo they should stop that. They clearly don't know how to make a cheat-proof system so they might as well concentrate on making the game fun.

[Wolfie]

I'd be interested to see how large the data transferred between client and server is, and how long it has to travel.

Is that 0.3 seconds the number they're getting from a player in Japan? Then the data transfer is too large between client and server.
Is that 0.3 seconds the number they're getting from a player outside of Japan? Then regional servers will fix that for the people who are interested in them, but is otherwise unavoidable.

[Alhanelem]

There is lots of hackers in and hacks for this game. Their precautions failed, their client fails, their netcode fails. Ruining the gameplay in order to prevent cheating is just ultra sad and a really really bad decision. It's what got them the bad press after all. Imo they should stop that. They clearly don't know how to make a cheat-proof system so they might as well concentrate on making the game fun.

I haven't seen any hackers. If you want to talk about botting, that's not the same thing as hacking. Anybody can download AutoHotKey and automate key-pressing for any program in existence. There's really nothing you can do about that short of using an invasive detection system.

Is that 0.3 seconds the number they're getting from a player in Japan? Then the data transfer is too large between client and server.

It's just an approximate number, not directly based off anything. And it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a ~300 ping (.3 seconds) to servers in Japan

They clearly don't know how to make a cheat-proof system so they might as well concentrate on making the game fun.

The people who work on protecting the game against cheaters are not hte same people who make the game fun. Thus, they can achieve both objectives. That being said, you can not 100% prevent all cheating. That doesn't mean they shouldn't do what they can to minimize it. Also, opening the door to cheaters will potentially make your game less fun.

If they trusted the client with all information, it would force them to use an invasive hacking-prevetion software like GameGuard to prevent cheating. These programs do not work very well and are also basically rootkits on your system that are almost impossible to fully remove if you uninstall the game that is using it. In short, not something you want to have on your computer.

[Coldfire]

0.3 seconds is the average latency for outside-japan. It's not much of an issue by itself. The problem is the time the server takes for a response which is ten times higher. In most other games you don't have to wait for a response and see the result right away. But even then the time the server takes to compute the input is way less in those games...

[Coldfire]

I haven't seen any hackers.

You haven't seen any hackers so they don't exist? ROFLMAO (Do I need to comment that any further?)

[Wolfie]

It's just an approximate number, not directly based off anything. And it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a ~300 ping (.3 seconds) to servers in Japan

From a client in Japan to a server in Japan? That's totally unreasonable ping.