What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

Got into a discussion in that thread about how every character's agency is ruined with the time loop as 'nobody could do anything differently' in order for the WoL to journey to Elpis. Then in an unrelated thread I saw someone quote Ardbert's "we did everything right" line and I thought, yeah, he did exactly what he was meant to do.

I genuinely don't understand what's satisfying about time loops and I've seen plenty of people say they prefer them to AUs. Near as I can tell, the one in EW completely undermined the agency of every major character in the foundation of the lore that establishes the world as we know it. Now that I think about it, had they gone the full Greek tragedy route similar to Oedipus where in trying to avoid an outcome it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, that might've made me like/sympathize with Venat. Instead, she chooses to follow the roadmap to the future the WoL gave her for nonsensical reasons.

I don't like how it's used by some to try paint her actions as an inevitability, and I think with matters such as time travel, there are just too many variables to even attempt to control it so tightly as to ensure an exact future - not unless everything is strictly pre-determined or something with a bird's eye view can control events to ensure a certain outcome is reached. I personally am waiting to see if they will reveal what it tells us about the nature of the universe and whether it's all determined in advance in some respect, and what this means for the characters' agency, or whether it can just appear that way; after all, Venat says she will take nothing for granted. The big question to me is why can it result in an AU in one instance but not the other (that we know of)? The idea of there being some kind of fate, raises the question of whether it has some manner of arbiter (7R vibes ahoy!), or creator. Give it a few expansions and the big bad will be Fate.

[Skyborne]

Give it a few expansions and the big bad will be Fate.

Getting flashbacks to literally fighting an AI called FATE in Chrono Cross.

Just because the WoL and Scions came out unscathed (as usual) didn't make it a feel good ending.

It seems to be so to the majority of people; the feelgood stuff just falls apart if you actually cared about or got attached to the "losers" of the tale. It's protagonist-centered morality gone to the extreme... reminds me of a Persona game. "Screw you, our lives may suck but we are free from your tyranny of order! (except for me, the self-insert Japanese high school chad who is surrounded by supportive friends and beautiful women who want to jump my bones and succeeds at everything the first or second time)"

[Rulakir]

The idea of there being some kind of fate, raises the question of whether it has some manner of arbiter (7R vibes ahoy!), or creator. Give it a few expansions and the big bad will be Fate.

This is my concern as well. It'd be worse than the Meteion reveal. I feel they had the opportunity to go the 'higher power' route with Hydaelyn and Zodiark, but instead chose to make them primals. The only other thing is we know the star somehow doles out souls, but I thought that was either random or had to meet some sort of naturally achieved criteria? It didn't seem implied that there's a consciousness in Etheirys making the decision.

I still don't know what the 12 are supposed to be and, speaking of which, is anyone else good with recognizing voices? I saw someone on Reddit say that Nald'thal is Hythlodaeus & Emet's VAs, but I can't tell with the music and battle noises. I've also seen some say Azeyma is Venat, but comparing the raid to the Hydaleyn trial it doesn't sound like the same VA to me. I have my doubts that even if the 12 do share VAs with other characters that it necessarily means anything.

[Cach]

Add me to the "I thought I was alone and going insane until I saw this thread" club.

I do not wish to retread old ground, but long story short, I was already shaky on everything post Garlemald and Elpis pulled the cord completely, when I realized that it wasn't a flashback and it was a playable area my heart just sank.

This is my concern as well. It'd be worse than the Meteion reveal. I feel they had the opportunity to go the 'higher power' route with Hydaelyn and Zodiark, but instead chose to make them primals. The only other thing is we know the star somehow doles out souls, but I thought that was either random or had to meet some sort of naturally achieved criteria? It didn't seem implied that there's a consciousness in Etheirys making the decision.

It kinda reminds me of the Loki TV show: "Hey, free will doesn't exist and all everyone did thus far was meaningless and without real agency, but it's okay, here's Graha eating a burger". I can totally see it happening.

[Nilroreo]

Add me to the "I thought I was alone and going insane until I saw this thread" club.

I do not wish to retread old ground, but long story short, I was already shaky on everything post Garlemald and Elpis pulled the cord completely, when I realized that it wasn't a flashback and it was a playable area my heart just sank.

I'm fine with it being a playable area, but I almost wish that instead of arriving there via time travel, if Elidibus or someone else had revealed Elpis still exists in the present day in the form of Azys Lla. We head there, and as a callback to 1.0, we use the Echo not to view the past as an outside observer, but to experience it firsthand by stepping into the shoes of Azem.