What is going on with Square Enix and the 14 team?

[Sqwall]

Its pretty clear you don't play healers mate, we don't talk about difficulty we talk about fun and engagement and right now healers are classes that are just 1 button spam which, when is over 100 times per instance, is not fun nor deep and the worst part is that even in Ultimate that stays true. A good design should work at all difficulty levels not only half work at the hardest setting that gets released maybe once per 1-2 years.

If the RPG before MMO is true then why not making them grow? Why make their gameplay for the most part the same from lv5 to lv90? No matter at which standards you look at, that design fails at both.

Wrong...I play Warrior...that's a healer right? lol j/k

You're correct, but also wrong. I play AST as my healer of choice, and I find it incredibly engaging with the cards, DPS, and healing. But I also understand my main goal as a healer...is to HEAL. DPS comes second, and it's an after thought for me. If I wanted to DPS...I would have picked a DPS for that fight. Which IS what I do. Sometimes I feel like healing...sometimes I feel like DPSing, but mostly I tank as I find that most enjoyable. And the fact that I can just switch roles and still feel comfortable healing while knowing each fight as a tank....is a testament to job balance in this game. Every job is viable. Anyone can play them.

The healers in my static are CONSTANTLY talking about there healing tactics and take healing the party to a whole different level I will never understand, and they are crazy good at it. AND they still seem to keep everyone alive...AND DPS....and I don't hear them complaining about it. I would go out on a limb and say...they enjoy the playstyle of healing despite the one button dps "rotation" everyone wants? The AST on our team is insanely good at playing that job.

[WaxSw]

I can't get behind the healer discussion anymore. I have to just watch from the sidelines as I personally want my healers to....heal rather then spam DPS. So by that logic I wouldn't want them being frustrated by saying "UGH...my dps rotation is broken because I have to heal your stupid face!".... "SHAME on you dumb tank for getting hit by that tank buster!"...."UGH healing is broken because I can't DPS like....a DPS....i'm forced to heal...why did I pick up a healer?"

Again I just have to stand by and shrug while healers argue about getting the two lowest parses in a raid..... right......

The problem is...THERE IS NOTHING TO HEAL. Dungeons are consistently cleared without healers because tank mitigation and healing is busted, extremes have been cleared without healers and even the 2 first floors of savage have seen no healer runs, ucob has been cleared without healers and there are 1 heal clears of all the ultimates, when there heal requirements are that low the whole "healers should heal" point doesn't work anymore (and has never to anyone half decent at it tbh).

All the arguments you say are dismantled by previous healer iterations and current tanks in fact, you have classes that can heal while having multiple ofensive actions that do not get in the way of healing, we have gauges that allow to save resources and delay the execution of actions and charges that work the same, the "UGH...my dps rotation is broken because..." woudn't happen, in fact even current healers are a proof that, good healers dont use anything but ogcd heals and all the gcds are their nuke and their dot, some of those casts could be switched for other actions and the healing side woudn't be affected in the slightest.

Besides on a side note if you've only cleared this tier and looking at parses not even fully cleared I don't think you're in a position to judge if the tier is good or not as you haven't experienced all the content and don't have anything to compare it against.

[Theodric]

When low expectations become the norm then whatever service is provided will inevitably become increasingly low effort. I've been to restaurants that were incredible the first few times. Then bit by bit, portion sizes were reduced alongside the quality of the ingredients and presentation. The ones that listened to customer feedback and strived to never take their customers for granted typically ended up improving and becoming world famous whereas those that took advantage of their customers either faded into obscurity or closed their doors.

By all means, if your expectations are low than feel free to keep them low. Though please don't try and insist that other people should not challenge the development team to constantly improve and offer more meat on the bone...especially when there's easily identifiable examples of content being scaled back/staggered to a greater degree than in previous expansions.

[Larirawiel]

I can't get behind the healer discussion anymore. I have to just watch from the sidelines as I personally want my healers to....heal rather then spam DPS. So by that logic I wouldn't want them being frustrated by saying "UGH...my dps rotation is broken because I have to heal your stupid face!".... "SHAME on you dumb tank for getting hit by that tank buster!"...."UGH healing is broken because I can't DPS like....a DPS....i'm forced to heal...why did I pick up a healer?"

Again I just have to stand by and shrug while healers argue about getting the two lowest parses in a raid..... right......

The problem is, the game is extremly DPS centric. That is the reason why many players are so unhappy. If someone starts to play a healer then he does not expect making DPS 90% of the time. If i want to DPS then i play a real DPS job and not a crippled one. There are two solution for this problem: make the game way less DPS centric. Or redesign the healer jobs so, that making DPS as a healer is not so braindead boring.


Cheers

[Sqwall]

The Eastern half of Stormblood was more enjoyable for me than the later portions of the Endwalker story post-Elpis. The moon was already an oddly paced zone, and while Elpis was fun because of the dynamics between the trio of ancients, everything spiralled out of control when they decided to introduce memory wiping and Venat deciding to do: Nothing!

Stormblood also represented a "golden age" when it came to battle content rollout, Eureka aside, it felt like there was simply more to do. Shadowbringers felt "ok" once Bozja released but their decision to frontload with so much crafter and gatherer content made for a game that was void of much else to do long term.

I can respect that. Stormblood had some great moments. The whole of Omega raids was "impeccable" and the extremes *chefs kiss*. The story was just falling flat for me....multiple times....it did get good near the end of stormblood as the stakes started getting raised.

[Manofpassion]

1. housing has always beena problem, but this has never been the focus of the game.
2. this is just petty, nothing more than easthetics, no effect on gameplay.
3. i'm just amazed they've made all classes viable, if they tried to make all the classes too different some would surely be left by the wayside in terms of job balance, I think this is the best way.
4. you want to know what we got when the tried to have a dungeon with branching paths? toto-rak which is it's previous form was the most boring dungeon they've ever done.
5. why fix what isn't broken? they keep this content cycle because it works. i've seen SWTOR try to mix up what content they deliver and it's been a disaster. and also it's not like we don't new things each expansion, for instance we have island sanctuary and criterion dungeons coming up.
6. any open world content will become repetitive after a while. i've seen games handle it far worse.
7. PVP has never been this game's focus, just be glad this patch is and improvement, any form pvp will becoming boring after a while. though granted i'm probably the wrong person to ask about this, I just don't like pvp in general.

> Nothing more than aesthetics

Uhhhh, glam is all about aesthetics isn't it? If we're saying aesthetics don't matter, then surely the entire glam system is a waste of dev time and money? I personally like aesthetics. I would like to see it improved.

Why fix what isn't broken is kind of what the devs aren't doing this patch. Ninja and Sam were fine before, so why change it? Same with bard too, now minuet is actually broken. I honestly would like the devs to tell us what their priorities are. To me it seems they seem keen on "fixing" things that are fine, while stuff like housing and Healers are left to flounder forever. For being healers, healers really don't have to heal. Either continue making them a green dps with actual rotations, or actually give them things to heal. The devs confound me.

[aveyond-dreams]

When low expectations become the norm then whatever service is provided will inevitably become increasingly low effort. I've been to restaurants that were incredible the first few times. Then bit by bit, portion sizes were reduced alongside the quality of the ingredients and presentation. The ones that listened to customer feedback and strived to never take their customers for granted typically ended up improving and becoming world famous whereas those that took advantage of their customers either faded into obscurity or closed their doors.

By all means, if your expectations are low than feel free to keep them low. Though please don't try and insist that other people should not challenge the development team to constantly improve and offer more meat on the bone...especially when there's easily identifiable examples of content being scaled back/staggered to a greater degree than in previous expansions.

ARR surprise job release = Ninja, a complete job at the time of release

Heavensward job release = 3 full jobs (despite some...unique gameplay quirks)

Heavensward race release = fully customizable with no restrictions

Stormblood job release = 2 full jobs, admittedly both beloved until Samurai was destroyed recently

Stormblood surprise job release = Blue Mage, a limited job whose fans defended it's incomplete state and thus it never progressed from that point, only to be seemingly abandoned or not a priority in EW patches

Shadowbringers race release = limited from the concept stage, genderlocked, portions of the community defended these limitations and called those who spoke against them toxic, proceeds to receive no updates throughout the entirety of Shadowbringers until EW launch

Endwalker = course corrects somewhat by releasing male Viera according to whatever remained on the front page of the megathread, despite limitations mood improves. Summoner becomes a summoner but is still missing various summons/features

Patch 6.1 = Hrothgar hair implementation proves to be a massive failure and letdown with even those averse to mods parading photos of them all over the official forums, housing lottery releases broken, and Samurai's receives the opposite changes that people wanted with the wrong ability being removed

The pattern above is concerning.

[WaxSw]

You're correct, but also wrong. I play AST as my healer of choice, and I find it incredibly engaging with the cards, DPS, and healing. But I also understand my main goal as a healer...is to HEAL. DPS comes second, and it's an after thought for me. If I wanted to DPS...I would have picked a DPS for that fight. Which IS what I do. Sometimes I feel like healing...sometimes I feel like DPSing, but mostly I tank as I find that most enjoyable. And the fact that I can just switch roles and still feel comfortable healing while knowing each fight as a tank....is a testament to job balance in this game. Every job is viable. Anyone can play them.

The healers in my static are CONSTANTLY talking about there healing tactics and take healing the party to a whole different level I will never understand, and they are crazy good at it. AND they still seem to keep everyone alive...AND DPS....and I don't hear them complaining about it. I would go out on a limb and say...they enjoy the playstyle of healing despite the one button dps "rotation" everyone wants? The AST on our team is insanely good at playing that job.

Ok what it is then

Again I just have to stand by and shrug while healers argue about getting the two lowest parses in a raid..... right......

or

I would go out on a limb and say...they enjoy the playstyle of healing despite the one button dps "rotation" everyone wants? The AST on our team is insanely good at playing that job.

I'm sorry to say this but you don't seem to understand healers properly, efficiency is the objective and as such dps is not a sideline, is the main focus while keeping the party alive due to the binary nature of healing, and under that scope this design is probably one of the most barren of depth in the market. 1 button spam is not fun on the long run, maybe when you don't understand/care for the role and are learning or playing casually it can work but as soon as the novelty wears off the enjoyment goes away.

Viablity is not an excuse of bad design, any armchair dev could make a game with 5 identical jobs all with 1 button with the same damage, all of them would be viable, none of them would be fun or properly designed.

[SieyaM]

Usually these discussion break down when they start talking about lack of content, because what people want is more content they want to do, and ignore all others. For someone 12 or so Savage raids and 6 ultimates would be a perfect amount of content because thats all they want to do, while others will want more fishing or crafting and wouldn't mind if there was no savage or ultimate content. FFXIV has attracted a very diverse crowd of players and no matter the content offered, some will always be dissatisfied.

[Manofpassion]

Usually these discussion break down when they start talking about lack of content, because what people want is more content they want to do, and ignore all others. For someone 12 or so Savage raids and 6 ultimates would be a perfect amount of content because thats all they want to do, while others will want more fishing or crafting and wouldn't mind if there was no savage or ultimate content. FFXIV has attracted a very diverse crowd of players and no matter the content offered, some will always be dissatisfied.

I agree. But this just puts more onus on the devs making things right. I'm not a fan of pvp, or the new upcoming deep dungeon. That's fine. I wouldn't say remove those things just for me. But when the only thing I have to look forward to until criterion dungeons come out, housing, is released in a dysfunctional state, I'm gonna be very annoyed. I admire ffxiv's diversity in content, but when some content is clearly shafted and rushed, that's when people start to get dissatisfied. We want equality in the quality of content I think. I think that's what most people are actually angry with.