Samurai changes are unacceptable in the current iteration

[Quor]

Personally SAM fell off for me after the additions of more charges to unnecessary skills so you can get more "booms".

Adding more Meikyos, Tsu charges did nothing for expanding SAM. Removing Kaiten only reinforced more Shinten spam to control your Kenki.

I'm not going to touch on Hagakure vs Ikishoten because clearly one had more thought put into it.

If they didn't know how to expand SAM, they should have just opted for more QoL changes rather than "we know you like a lot of boom so we're adding more of that," and creating more of a messy rotation that isn't satisfying because you see it so often.

This is an important bit. I think the major root of the SAM "spike" damage problem lies in how we're forced to dump everything into a two minute window instead of having it spaced out more evenly. The lows are much lower if you don't get those juicy direct crits but the high's are much higher if you do, so this creates that damage variance they are so concerned about. The addition of charges on Kaeshi and Meikyo just locked SAM into a 120s rotation instead of it's 60s rotation from ShB, and since every raid buff now falls in that same 120s cycle there is so much more damage to be gained when a SAM pools charges for raid buffs.

That should have been factored into their calculations, but either it wasn't or else they didn't think it would be that big of a deal. Hell, with the way things have gone recently I half expect them to believe that the player base would have treated the charges as something to help keep the CD rolling. "Easing" the pressure to absolutely use Kaeshi on CD as soon as it came up again. But if that's the case then whoever made that decision doesn't know how the game works; raid buff alignment with big damage CD's has been the name of the game since Coil. In short, the devs created the very problem that they're now trying to fix, but instead of walking back the changes that resulted in the problem they've taken a chainsaw to the job and called it balance.

[forumerror]

Coming from a super casual that likes things to be fun over all else, even I think all DRG and SAM AoEs should be cone/line and the other 3 mDPS should be circle AoE. For tanks, their AoE combos should 1st hit cone (longer range) and 2nd+ hit circle (shorter range).

If they want us to use 3rd Eye, change it to 15/30s cd, reduce dmg by 25/50%. I simply do not care about a negligible 10% dr.

The Kaiten outrage is surprising to me. Always felt like a nerfed Life Surge from DRG and I never felt it was part of their core identity. Identity for me was always "lots of combos", inherited from its FFXI roots of being able to skill chain with yourself. Still have this hanging around in a txt file:

~~ LVL 71 ~~
Tachi: Gekko
Tachi: Yukikaze
SC: Induration (50%)
Tachi: Gekko
SC: Fragmentation (100%)
Tachi: Kasha
SC: Light (300%)

Big hit is secondary identity, but is still there, at least for me: Midare does 66% more than 2nd highest potency regular attack I have plus crit - if that's not your definition of a big hit, I don't know what you want. In a burst window, you can still do 4(?) of these, and they all crit - we have 4 free cherries on top, instead of 1 that we had to place there ourselves. Animations and "fantasy" feeling are personal; so ignoring that, am I missing something about Kaiten (still a bit low level)?

[Kaseladen]

Coming from a super casual that likes things to be fun over all else, even I think all DRG and SAM AoEs should be cone/line and the other 3 mDPS should be circle AoE. For tanks, their AoE combos should 1st hit cone (longer range) and 2nd+ hit circle (shorter range).

If they want us to use 3rd Eye, change it to 15/30s cd, reduce dmg by 25/50%. I simply do not care about a negligible 10% dr.

The Kaiten outrage is surprising to me. Always felt like a nerfed Life Surge from DRG and I never felt it was part of their core identity. Identity for me was always "lots of combos", inherited from its FFXI roots of being able to skill chain with yourself. Still have this hanging around in a txt file:


Big hit is secondary identity, but is still there, at least for me: Midare does 66% more than 2nd highest potency regular attack I have plus crit - if that's not your definition of a big hit, I don't know what you want. In a burst window, you can still do 4(?) of these, and they all crit - we have 4 free cherries on top, instead of 1 that we had to place there ourselves. Animations and "fantasy" feeling are personal; so ignoring that, am I missing something about Kaiten (still a bit low level)?

You might have not played enough to get a feel for it. There's the combos but they all build up to that one big hit. Replacing Kaiten for stuff like auto crits makes the gameplay far more static and moves the engagement to just spamming Shinten which, for many, is far less enjoyable. There's no management of kenki, just spam it all into the spenders ASAP

[Roxus]

Coming from a super casual that likes things to be fun over all else, even I think all DRG and SAM AoEs should be cone/line and the other 3 mDPS should be circle AoE. For tanks, their AoE combos should 1st hit cone (longer range) and 2nd+ hit circle (shorter range).

If they want us to use 3rd Eye, change it to 15/30s cd, reduce dmg by 25/50%. I simply do not care about a negligible 10% dr.

The Kaiten outrage is surprising to me. Always felt like a nerfed Life Surge from DRG and I never felt it was part of their core identity. Identity for me was always "lots of combos", inherited from its FFXI roots of being able to skill chain with yourself. Still have this hanging around in a txt file:


Big hit is secondary identity, but is still there, at least for me: Midare does 66% more than 2nd highest potency regular attack I have plus crit - if that's not your definition of a big hit, I don't know what you want. In a burst window, you can still do 4(?) of these, and they all crit - we have 4 free cherries on top, instead of 1 that we had to place there ourselves. Animations and "fantasy" feeling are personal; so ignoring that, am I missing something about Kaiten (still a bit low level)?

Your Samurai is level 58 and you are missing traits that buff your basic hit potency, among many other things. This is why you do not see the complaints we have. If I had to put it in FF11 terms, take out the skillchains and that's what gameplay is like right now for Samurai at 90. Edit: That may be too extreme, but my memory on combat in ff11 is a bit hazy. If someone else wants to elaborate I think it will be better.

[jetteaime]

Totally agree. It feels like the devs think the player base is stupid and incapable of learning a more complex rotation.

And the “button bloat” justifications are getting out of hand. The controller settings in this game are so accessible, even jobs with a lot of buttons like GNB in ShB wasn’t bad if you knew how to use R2+L2 and W-cross hotbars.

SMN went from having a complex rotation to now mostly pressing one button.

SAM without kaiten feels empty, and the kenki gauge feels incredibly boring because we no longer have to look at it aside from preventing overcap with ikishoten. Squeenix please, stop the oversimplification of jobs.

[Huasnowborne]

I'm usually more or less chill with other changes but removing kaitan is so bad that I had to create forum account to give feedback. Having to wait awkwardly before every midare bugs me to no end. They need to bring back kaitan ASAP.

[Warpup]

Totally agree. It feels like the devs think the player base is stupid and incapable of learning a more complex rotation.

And the “button bloat” justifications are getting out of hand. The controller settings in this game are so accessible, even jobs with a lot of buttons like GNB in ShB wasn’t bad if you knew how to use R2+L2 and W-cross hotbars.

SMN went from having a complex rotation to now mostly pressing one button.

SAM without kaiten feels empty, and the kenki gauge feels incredibly boring because we no longer have to look at it aside from preventing overcap with ikishoten. Squeenix please, stop the oversimplification of jobs.

Definitely feel this sentiment right here. There is streamlining, then there is oversimplifying or "dumbing down", which is what happened for me and classes I played in WoW over the years. It is not a great feeling to have for classes a player loves to main. I want the Devs the believe in the players more and that even if something seems daunting at first, that we will figure things out. I love samurai so much that I just played it over and over till i could play it and know it like the back of my palm. When i looked at some guides, I had most of the concepts down, just some small ideas I didn't know fundamentally as a player, like slide casting for instance. Once I understood these concepts, it only elevated my execution of the job, and it felt incredible to execute samurai at such a fine tuned level.

This instance with the devs makes me think of what they did with monk in ShB when they removed Greased Lightning Stack management, and made Tornado kick a oGCD. It fixed the issue for monks having a clunky mechanic with GL they had to manage, and that using Tornado Kick was actually detrimental and discouraged to be used (their lv60 capstone ability). However, it made it very boring for the rest of ShB for me. The main difference for when they changed monk was in the middle of the ShB as opposed to Samurai being early in EW. This was their way of prepping for Monk's rework for Endwalker, and I will say is very successful in its rework. Monk has a very fun and engaging rotation, and has a more identifiable class flavor and fantasy.

Now with that said, if they are planning to do something similar to Samurai, I ask: Why? And what for? And of all times, why now? As far as I am concerned, Samurai has been a solid job for most of its life cycle. I know it had some bumps here and there, but nothing as detrimental as this. They would need to show me the concepts and tooltips for future reworks to convince me because right now, I am not convinced. Button bloat is not the problem, oversimplifying is the real problem. I want Kaiten back.

[Kazimere]

Ya'll are still on this, eh? Do you think if you screech long enough they will change it?

[Kaseladen]

Ya'll are still on this, eh? Do you think if you screech long enough they will change it?

They wanted feedback, they're bloody well getting feedback

[Roxus]

Hello hello!

Apologies for the low activity today, had a birthday I had to attend and other matters. As for news today, Black Mage has been a very popular talking point and for good(?) reason. Also, remember that point about exclusion? Yeah.

Taken from a discord:
Welcome to Stormblood!