best and worst jobs in the new pvp mode?

[Nav_Fae]

SS Tier Jobs: Ninja, Samurai
S Tier Jobs: Warrior, Dragoon, White Mage
A Tier Jobs: Astrologian, Red Mage, Machinist, Dark Knight, Summoner
B Tier Jobs: Sage, Reaper, Bard, Scholar
C Tier Jobs: Monk, Dancer, Gunbreaker
D Tier Jobs: Paladin, Black Mage

[Raiu]

SS Tier Jobs: Ninja, Samurai
S Tier Jobs: Warrior, Dragoon, White Mage
A Tier Jobs: Astrologian, Red Mage, Machinist, Dark Knight, Summoner
B Tier Jobs: Sage, Reaper, Bard, Scholar
C Tier Jobs: Monk, Dancer, Gunbreaker
D Tier Jobs: Paladin, Black Mage

Would you really rank GNB over PLD?

[Sylvain]

SS Tier Jobs: Ninja, Samurai
S Tier Jobs: Warrior, Dragoon, White Mage
A Tier Jobs: Astrologian, Red Mage, Machinist, Dark Knight, Summoner
B Tier Jobs: Sage, Reaper, Bard, Scholar
C Tier Jobs: Monk, Dancer, Gunbreaker
D Tier Jobs: Paladin, Black Mage

I have to say I mostly agree


NIN and Sam LB are too hard to deal with and need some nerf in a way or another. NIN's trigger should either be low, range be reduced and/or only 1 extra kill allowed.
SAM's annoyingness isn't really that it can OS 1 person attacking him every 2min, it's that at the same time it shreds half the team to half health while doing it. Kuzuchi should NOT proc from AoE hit, that gives too much freedom on who to OS at not extra cost.
I should be able to ignore the SAM while his LB is up. (which should be THE counter play to that LB)
WAR AoE stun needs a nerf, either CD, either AoE stun removed (or only ST, +heavy AoE let say). Also, their healing capability while in berserk shouldn't be enhanced by the extra damage. That makes them too tanky compared to other tanks
DRG : Tbh the only real issue is that the AoE circle from their LB is virtually invisible in a team fight.
WHM : Considering it's only a 60s CD, nerfing the dmg to 12k would feel appropriate. It does a bit too many good things for its CD (or bumping up the CD to 90s). A line Ult in a tunnel map also makes it a bit too practical. Perhaps turning into Holy would keep it really good while nerfing the sniper aspect of it.
AST : LB is definitely too long and should be brought down to 90s. Maybe reduce Macrocosme to 25s to help the AoE healing a little. ST is fine with dual cast imo. Ewer should probably be replaced by Bole. Ewer seems fine on paper but 2500mp over 15s will rarely be of use to anyone but the tank. I'm unsure about boosting the cards to 15%.
DRK : TBN is just too weak. Considering its tie to Shadowbringer it should at the very least be 15s. And the shield ... like 8k for real? Salted Earth could see either its CD or duration improved, it is central to its gameplay.
SMN : Tbh feels fine to me. They do consistently well, Pheonix while rarely used is actually extremely potent. Crimson Cyclone and Strike could perhaps reduce the CD of Radiant Aegis to help its survival while going in melee. Slipstream should make allies sprint in it x)
MCH: My main job, I feel like The turret CD is too long or doesn't last enough. The rest feels fine, perhaps a small boost to my filler, 4000 is rather bleh. Overheat doesn't feel that rewarding for the time it takes to get it. LB, I wish I could say "60s" but that would probably makes it too good.
SAG: Not commenting havn't played it enough
RPR: Same
BRD: Biggest and only issue, imo, is the LD. it is just waaayy too long. it should be 60s. The rest of the toolkit is fine to me.
SCH: LB should be reduced to 60s. Mummification range is too short. Expedient reduced to 20 or even 25s would go a long way to help the job. The 10% buff on shield and dot should also perhaps be upped to 15s. It just feels like you're a bit short of doing enough.

DNC: Dnc buffs just seem too weak for what it does. On the other hand boosting a SAM/DRG even further sounds like a bad idea...
PLD: Squishy. You're just, squishy. Guardian should be reduced to 20s and include a damage reduction from the ally source, like 20%. Holy Shieltron should be 15s. Clemency should be added in some way. Like after doing Guardian you get Clemency for instance, 12k heal for 10s

BLM: Burst should be instant and 8yalms. Even when melee are on you they're somehow out of range. NightWings just doesn't work because if you're staying at range you can't do it on the other team range, to effectively CC them. If you do it in melee it's a 4s delayed 6k dmg on 30s which is lame. This skill needs a rework. Leyline would be nice to reduce the ramp-up time for the DoT. Paradox dmg could be slightly buffed too, like 12k.

[Cidel]

SS Tier Jobs: Ninja, Samurai
S Tier Jobs: Warrior, Dragoon, White Mage
A Tier Jobs: Astrologian, Red Mage, Machinist, Dark Knight, Summoner
B Tier Jobs: Sage, Reaper, Bard, Scholar
C Tier Jobs: Monk, Dancer, Gunbreaker
D Tier Jobs: Paladin, Black Mage

Having played PvP more since I last commented on it, and played around with other jobs and observed others, I find this to be the most accurate take on where jobs are in terms of strength. Though I'd swap Gunbreaker and maybe Dancer with Paladin. Potentially swap Ninja with Warrior, or just bump Ninja down a tier.

I just don't find much redeeming about Dancer outside of being a dance partner and a situational AoE LB stun that has such a tight window to capitalize on; Whitemage's LB is almost superior in every way outside of differing AoE ranges. Because of it's nerfed attack range (why?), using DNC in Frontlines is almost a death sentence if they want to ever try to contribute with more than half of their skills (though job balance in Frontlines is a different beast for the most part, any job with a powerful AoE LB jumps to top tier). Maybe someone can explain to me why Dancer would be perceived to being a tier above Blackmage.

Paladin isn't strong, but feels like it executes its purpose as a classic tank/disrupter better than Gunbreaker (though Dark knight does it better). If Intervention actually had a stun though...

I think all healers are viable, with White mage and Astrologian having an edge. Sage doesn't have any reliable healing; it needs to be played somewhat aggressively and while being attentive to focused targets (or creating them) with Toxicon's debuff. Between that and their slightly larger (AoE) DPS kit, Sages can be solid provided targets are being focused down together with teammates. The shields and Kardia heals are mostly perks to staying on the offensive (though their LB is a godsend for pushing past the checkpoint/giving your team a breather... if they notice it). Scholar is interesting, in that you can regularly damage buff (and shield your entire team), or damage debuff (and DoT) grouped-up enemies, and increase the damage of the DoT or shield strength with an ability every half a minute that gives an AoE defense bonus. Their LB is also pretty good at keeping your team alive, and I'd argue this makes them the best at "healing," but only in that window of having Seraph. However, they have the worst direct-damage capacity (Mummification's range is pretty pitiful), so Scholars are basically left hoping the rest of their team can capitalize on their buffs.

While Whitemage has some solid abilities, it seems like it's carried entirely by their LB; I will be surprised if it survives a PvP balance patch unscathed. Being able to follow-up the LB with their instant AoEs usually means something is going to die with even a little bit of help from attentive teammates and the imp debuff being versatile enough as a defensive or offensive maneuver. I still stand by Astrologian being the most well-rounded healer, with a potential of up to 4 (instant) heals with HoTs or shields, AoE abilities that can inflict heavy and bind and Macrocosmos that's essentially a nuke to the enemy team and a (delayed) heal to your own. And if you have competent teammates, their balance and spire cards and limit break can quickly turn a fight in your favor.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

I still stand by Astrologian being the most well-rounded healer, with a potential of up to 4 (instant) heals with HoTs or shields, AoE abilities that can inflict heavy and bind and Macrocosmos that's essentially a nuke to the enemy team and a (delayed) heal to your own. And if you have competent teammates, their balance and spire cards and limit break can quickly turn a fight in your favor.

I had a big elaborate reply written and the forum ate it apparently.

The Tl;dr was:
1. I wish more healers were based around AST.
2. There's no reason why every class shouldn't have at least one CC skill (GNB and SGE having none is hilarious to me as those are my two faves)
3. SCH and SGE could be made better with SCH getting something like tether/cc/etc and SGE getting something like sorteria/krasis/some new pvp skill since they're one of the few classes that didn't get any pvp unique skill.
4. Create systems where you goad/punish not where spamming zerg rush is the best tactic depending on what classes you were lucky enough to get that run.

[Qeilos]

Maybe someone can explain to me why Dancer would be perceived to being a tier above Blackmage.

From my personal perspective? DNC can atleast keep itself alive, it has decent self peel and survival mechanisms. If someone puts a <1> above a BLM it dies. Full stop.