Trick Attack

[Manofpassion]

Yeah lmao. Have you seen mug's animation? It's the most limpdick animation in the game next to energy drain. If they're gonna rework nin and make mug the next big thing, at least make it not look terrible. Video games at the end of the day are power fantasies. Mug makes me feel weak, not strong. Surely someone in the animation team can take a break from making another cash shop mount and make mug not look terrible.

Yoshi p said they paid the most attention to Sam and nin this patch, but it doesn't feel like it. Hell, there is a fucking mod out to make mug not the second worst animation in the game. I ask on behalf of all ninja players that the devs actually do what they say and pay attention to nin instead of making empty statements.

[Kolsykol]

Honestly they could just return Sneak Attack and replace Mug with it for the DMG buff.

[Grimoire-M]

If Bunshin didn’t require Ninki I could get over the opener. The problem is Mug being filler made optimizing it easier mid-fight. Can’t hold it for the 2M burst or use that drift to your advantage as before, can’t pop it pre Limit Cut in P2, If it drifts in P3/4 your raid DPS is fucked. Trick honestly was built into the flow of the rotation better AND did the same job better. I’d much rather a double debuff on Trick if SE wanted to mess with it. Higher personal lower raid? Fine. It’s the flow that matters here.

[Manofpassion]

I just did p3s reclears today, and i must admit having to juggle mug and trick at the same time now is kinda awkward. Not being able to use mug on birds, reopener after birds also feels uncomfortable, etc. It might just be the transition period talking, but for now I enjoy p3s even less. Which is saying something kek

[aloneatsea]

The issue here is that both Mug and Trick have prerequisites to activate. Mug you need to have sub-60 Ninki, Trick you need to have Suiton active. Juggling both of these conditions just to enter your burst window is really uncomfortable when, for example, Red Mage can simply pop Embolden and burst away.

This is not to say I think we should do away with Suiton -- I think the act of activating Suiton is a good build-up towards a powerful raid buff. The problem is that we have to do it twice. I just don't understand why this type of change was made. I'd really love to sit down and have a proper conversation with the job designers about why they thought this was a good idea, and what they're hoping to achieve.

At the moment, all they're earning from me is disappointment.

[NobleWinter]

Yeah lmao. Have you seen mug's animation? It's the most limpdick animation in the game next to energy drain. If they're gonna rework nin and make mug the next big thing, at least make it not look terrible. Video games at the end of the day are power fantasies. Mug makes me feel weak, not strong. Surely someone in the animation team can take a break from making another cash shop mount and make mug not look terrible.

Trick Attack was clearly designed to let people know the buff Window has begun. Suiton does the same thing as this visual warning that the Trick Attack Window is coming soon. It's such an odd choice to switch the Raid Buff to Mug with hardly any sound effect or animation to notice. I think being mugged by 8 people makes sense thematically as a damage increase but it really does look terrible as it currently stands.

[aloneatsea]

I feel like Trick Attack makes much more sense than Mug as a raid buff. Trick Attack gives the impression of a 'dirty trick', some sort of cheap attack that briefly lower the enemy's guard, like throwing sand in their eyes.

Mug just feels like we're robbing them of something. Which, to be fair, is what the ability has historically done. I'm just now sure how to translate that into combat in a way that makes sense. It really doesn't feel like a ninjalike ability at all.

[aloneatsea]

Apologies for the double post, but I do have to wonder why these changes were made in 6.1. I know historically that job changes have always been made in odd patches, but making such a change to the way a job works right before an Ultimate feels rather cruel. I understand the same thing happened in 5.1 before TEA was released, but according to stories I've heard from those who were there, 5.0 Ninja was released in an abysmal state and desperately needed changes.



While I'm sure making Mudras GCDs instead of oGCDs was controversial, it's obvious that such a change is immensely beneficial to those who suffer from high ping. I can't think of any inherent benefit to the changes made here, though... nor would I have considered 6.08 Ninja to be in a poor state at all. If anything, it was too strong. Now, in 6.1, it's definitely too strong.

Making such drastic job changes in even patches would at least mean you could easily swap to another role, given that crafted gear is fairly easy to acquire. The limit is only the size of your gil coffers, as opposed to a weekly loot lockout.


I do think this highlights a gearing issue for melee DPS, however. Every other role can swap to a different class within the same archetype -- WAR can swap to GNB, RDM can swap to SMN, WHM can swap to SGE, MCH can swap to BRD. They might not have their BiS, but at the very least they can enter the new ultimate and play. If you locked into Scouting, Ninja is all you have. To make such drastic changes right before a piece of content being released...? I just don't get it.


I don't get the changes, and I don't get why they were made now. I worry I'm not going to enjoy the new Ultimate, but I've already promised my static I'd play melee DPS for them...

[Raikai]

Honestly, the new TA/Mug maybe changes little about the Ninja themselves... it's still an odd minute buff that can even go as far as being a buff.. I'm not really sure since I don't main NIN.

But what I'm sure of is that impacts the rest of us, because it was fun to keep track of a Ninja's TA windows to seize the moment and unload some big hits.

[Manofpassion]

While I agree that the new mug change doesn't effect our rotation too much on paper, the changes make ninja feel considerably more jank even after I've practiced a couple of days now. I'll reiterate what I said in another thread.

Needing Suiton + ninki below 60 to activate both trick and mug without any dps loss feels quite awkward. While this can be claimed to be complexity, and I guess it technically is, it feels incredibly jank. I don't mind putting in work to get a raid buff, like in astro's divination in shb, but that system in my opinion flowed much better. The complexity, which I'm sure is accidental because it's the ninja devs, is appreciated, but it needs to flow a lot more better to make it worth the hassle. Shb divination was a 6% buff, so the work felt like it was worth it since it was one of the strongest buffs in the game. Ninja puts in work just to get shitty brotherhood.

TLDR: The extra work needed to juggle mug and new trick feels jank, and with mug being just a generic raid buff, it doesn't feel like all the work is worth it.