6.1 and the frustration with job changes or: how I started worrying about XIV patches

[KoS_Jooken]

I won't argue about whether those changes are good or bad, I occasionally play NIN but always hated SAM, so idk.

But what you think about is an utopia, there is no one out there that would be able to do that in a way that makes the community like it. I don't know what the meaning of those changes were (Most probable guess : run homogeneization), but say we ask 100 parsers how to adjust jobs. They might have ideas that feel good, but will they be balanced ? Will they really feel good on the long term, when you don't get THAT crit, or have .01 too much GCD and your whole rotation gets thrown overboard ? Won't those parsers be hated by the community ?

I'm not saying the changes they made are good, or even purposeful. I'm just saying reworks like that will always be criticized, and it's no surprise the community as a whole despise it, juste like they despise the SMN rework, or pretty much every rework ever. Let's wait and see, and discuss once we all know what exactly we're talking about.

I don't really like that thing, BUT HERE'S MY OPINION ANYWAY! -kids in 2022

[KoS_Jooken]

I didn't expressed my opinion on the changes, I expressed my opinion on the community's reaction. Must be hard being an adult and not knowing how to read.

Don't disrespect me because you're unhappy with your personal toy, sweetheart

I didn't specify that you were talking about the changes. I was the one talking about the community's reaction and how obtuse people are being.

[CuragaCura]

I won't argue about whether those changes are good or bad, I occasionally play NIN but always hated SAM, so idk.

But what you think about is an utopia, there is no one out there that would be able to do that in a way that makes the community like it. I don't know what the meaning of those changes were (Most probable guess : run homogeneization), but say we ask 100 parsers how to adjust jobs. They might have ideas that feel good, but will they be balanced ? Will they really feel good on the long term, when you don't get THAT crit, or have .01 too much GCD and your whole rotation gets thrown overboard ? Won't those parsers be hated by the community ?

I'm not saying the changes they made are good, or even purposeful. I'm just saying reworks like that will always be criticized, and it's no surprise the community as a whole despise it, juste like they despise the SMN rework, or pretty much every rework ever. Let's wait and see, and discuss once we all know what exactly we're talking about.

No one asked for an utopia. They wanted a clear and concise line of communication regarding these changes as well as a confirmation regarding their thoughts.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I didn't specify that you were talking about the changes. I was the one talking about the community's reaction and how obtuse people are being.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood you, I'm used to people being overly aggressive ! I'll delete that message.

And yes, Curaga, that's why I only quoted part of whitemoonflower's message. I want that clear line of communication as well, but their idea of people from the community helping with the changes seem utopic to me.

[CuragaCura]

Ah, sorry I misunderstood you, I'm used to people being overly aggressive ! I'll delete that message.

And yes, Curaga, that's why I only quoted part of whitemoonflower's message. I want that clear line of communication as well, but their idea of people from the community helping with the changes seem utopic to me.

Honestly, we should strive for utopic standards but it's highly unlikely to happen given the how faith in humanity is either usually shattered, exploded or just plain annihilated. To take things at a black and white extreme is just going to paint your message the wrong way no matter what.

Unless you like watching the world burn.

Then you're kind of a psychopath.

"Great Moogly Mog, kupo. It's all gone to fecal matter."

[IdowhatIwant]

I believe they said they will explain the reason for the changes we got in this patch. If I heard correctly I believe Yoshi P also mentioned something about crit synergy in the patch reading. I think if the devs are able to explain the reasons and give us an idea of where they are wanting to go with the jobs that would be great and give us an opportunity to give feed back on this direction if it may be going the wrong route. I think getting an answer as to why these changes are happening in the middle of an expansion instead of towards the end or at the start of the new expansion should be answered as well.

[CuragaCura]

I believe they said they will explain the reason for the changes we got in this patch. If I heard correctly I believe Yoshi P also mentioned something about crit synergy in the patch reading. I think if the devs are able to explain the reasons and give us an idea of where they are wanting to go with the jobs that would be great and give us an opportunity to give feed back on this direction if it may be going the wrong route. I think getting an answer as to why these changes are happening in the middle of an expansion instead of towards the end or at the start of the new expansion should be answered as well.

We are willing to hear out the reasoning behind the changes but we are also asking that these changes not go into effect. There is an uproar across all three communities regarding this change which is said to be "unwanted" because this change comes at a time where a major change to how a class plays does not usually happen. Reducing class complexity while retaining overall performance does not mean it is the best change which is why we are against it.

[whitemoonflower]

I won't argue about whether those changes are good or bad, I occasionally play NIN but always hated SAM, so idk.

But what you think about is an utopia, there is no one out there that would be able to do that in a way that makes the community like it. I don't know what the meaning of those changes were (Most probable guess : run homogeneization), but say we ask 100 parsers how to adjust jobs. They might have ideas that feel good, but will they be balanced ? Will they really feel good on the long term, when you don't get THAT crit, or have .01 too much GCD and your whole rotation gets thrown overboard ? Won't those parsers be hated by the community ?

I'm not saying the changes they made are good, or even purposeful. I'm just saying reworks like that will always be criticized, and it's no surprise the community as a whole despise it, juste like they despise the SMN rework, or pretty much every rework ever. Let's wait and see, and discuss once we all know what exactly we're talking about.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't find asking for better communication between the development team and the community to be "utopian". As OP originally stated, proposing changes like these in a timeframe that allows for feedback to be properly reviewed could prevent these situations from happening to such an extent. Yoshi-P was even quoted here saying, "So I would appreciate it if you can send us your feedback to the official forums so that we can look into it. The people in the community team will gather and round up the feedback and report to the team," in regards to the Hrothgar hairstyles issue. But it's a matter of acting on those words.

Not everyone plays each job the same; I understand. But despite there being multiple playstyles for SAM, the vast majority of SAM mains agreed that removing Hissatsu: Kaiten was a bad idea. Opinions may differ on some matters, but they could at least assess the general consensus before removing abilities and gutting entire rotations.

[Dhalya]

I wonder how good of a data analysis team they have and generally how much data they collect and look at.
Because it seems to me that instead of listening to written feedback on social media they rather look at number of failed rotations, wipes, deaths, duration of dungeons etc.
They see that the majority of players press completely wrong buttons and get hit by mechanics when doing a reopener.
It seems to me they are just analyzing that and looking for ways to make it easier for more people to play good.

If you run roulettes daily you will see that the majority of players are very very bad. In almost every run the healer or tank do more damage than someone with dps role, or you will often see healers spamming gcd heals etc.

So yeah I know why they're doing it, anyway I am with you guys, I hate it too and I want to have options to improve my rotation even after the first month of playing a job...

[SeverianLyonesse]

Not everyone plays each job the same; I understand. But despite there being multiple playstyles for SAM, the vast majority of SAM mains agreed that removing Hissatsu: Kaiten was a bad idea. Opinions may differ on some matters, but they could at least assess the general consensus before removing abilities and gutting entire rotations.

I don't want to minimize the removal of Kaiten, but it's not just that. The guaranteed crits and flattening of the DPS range are also terrible. There is virtually no more job fantasy expression in SAM. It has been thoroughly gutted in the same vein as AST, in a way that deprives it of almost any core job identity (you could argue the same for MCH and DRK, but I think those at least what was lost was supplanted with alternative job identities). The whole point of both AST and SAM, more than most other jobs, was variability, and now they just feel like high APM with none of the fun slot machine payoff.

The way this is going, I foresee procs getting slowly removed as well. Verfire/Verstone are bloating my hotbars and don't pop when I need them so they should just be autocombos off Verthunder/Veraero. It's so simple it's beautiful, no more thinking needed.

I know I keep saying that this is to be anticipated because FFXIV is very much riding the wave of casual-friendly gameplay. But it's still extremely disappointing to watch because the expansion job designs have been outstanding compared to the base game jobs. In the same vein that WHM, BLM, WAR, PLD, BRD, DRG, (and now SMN) are all very classic, easy to understand concepts for newbs, DRK, AST, MCH, RDM, SAM, GNB, SGE all have so much potential as more complex jobs for players who like a bit of challenge. And it is continually being stripped away in favor of a mentality that *every* job should be baby's first PS4 crossbar, and on several levels I think that is bad design that will come back to haunt the devs. We need some big brain jobs and BLM does not cut it.