6.1 and the frustration with job changes or: how I started worrying about XIV patches

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Can the same degree of mindful development that BLM receives be applied to the rest of the jobs? If no one in charge of job changes understands how a particular job plays (or even enjoys playing it for that matter), can the community—those who main it, not just those who play it casually or to cap everything—be sought out on these changes?

We're asking for two things: meaningful changes and to be part of the process of reaching them. Please consider this.

I won't argue about whether those changes are good or bad, I occasionally play NIN but always hated SAM, so idk.

But what you think about is an utopia, there is no one out there that would be able to do that in a way that makes the community like it. I don't know what the meaning of those changes were (Most probable guess : run homogeneization), but say we ask 100 parsers how to adjust jobs. They might have ideas that feel good, but will they be balanced ? Will they really feel good on the long term, when you don't get THAT crit, or have .01 too much GCD and your whole rotation gets thrown overboard ? Won't those parsers be hated by the community ?

I'm not saying the changes they made are good, or even purposeful. I'm just saying reworks like that will always be criticized, and it's no surprise the community as a whole despise it, juste like they despise the SMN rework, or pretty much every rework ever. Let's wait and see, and discuss once we all know what exactly we're talking about.

[KoS_Jooken]

I won't argue about whether those changes are good or bad, I occasionally play NIN but always hated SAM, so idk.

But what you think about is an utopia, there is no one out there that would be able to do that in a way that makes the community like it. I don't know what the meaning of those changes were (Most probable guess : run homogeneization), but say we ask 100 parsers how to adjust jobs. They might have ideas that feel good, but will they be balanced ? Will they really feel good on the long term, when you don't get THAT crit, or have .01 too much GCD and your whole rotation gets thrown overboard ? Won't those parsers be hated by the community ?

I'm not saying the changes they made are good, or even purposeful. I'm just saying reworks like that will always be criticized, and it's no surprise the community as a whole despise it, juste like they despise the SMN rework, or pretty much every rework ever. Let's wait and see, and discuss once we all know what exactly we're talking about.

I don't really like that thing, BUT HERE'S MY OPINION ANYWAY! -kids in 2022

[KoS_Jooken]

I didn't expressed my opinion on the changes, I expressed my opinion on the community's reaction. Must be hard being an adult and not knowing how to read.

Don't disrespect me because you're unhappy with your personal toy, sweetheart

I didn't specify that you were talking about the changes. I was the one talking about the community's reaction and how obtuse people are being.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I didn't specify that you were talking about the changes. I was the one talking about the community's reaction and how obtuse people are being.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood you, I'm used to people being overly aggressive ! I'll delete that message.

And yes, Curaga, that's why I only quoted part of whitemoonflower's message. I want that clear line of communication as well, but their idea of people from the community helping with the changes seem utopic to me.

[CuragaCura]

Ah, sorry I misunderstood you, I'm used to people being overly aggressive ! I'll delete that message.

And yes, Curaga, that's why I only quoted part of whitemoonflower's message. I want that clear line of communication as well, but their idea of people from the community helping with the changes seem utopic to me.

Honestly, we should strive for utopic standards but it's highly unlikely to happen given the how faith in humanity is either usually shattered, exploded or just plain annihilated. To take things at a black and white extreme is just going to paint your message the wrong way no matter what.

Unless you like watching the world burn.

Then you're kind of a psychopath.

"Great Moogly Mog, kupo. It's all gone to fecal matter."

[IdowhatIwant]

I believe they said they will explain the reason for the changes we got in this patch. If I heard correctly I believe Yoshi P also mentioned something about crit synergy in the patch reading. I think if the devs are able to explain the reasons and give us an idea of where they are wanting to go with the jobs that would be great and give us an opportunity to give feed back on this direction if it may be going the wrong route. I think getting an answer as to why these changes are happening in the middle of an expansion instead of towards the end or at the start of the new expansion should be answered as well.

[CuragaCura]

I believe they said they will explain the reason for the changes we got in this patch. If I heard correctly I believe Yoshi P also mentioned something about crit synergy in the patch reading. I think if the devs are able to explain the reasons and give us an idea of where they are wanting to go with the jobs that would be great and give us an opportunity to give feed back on this direction if it may be going the wrong route. I think getting an answer as to why these changes are happening in the middle of an expansion instead of towards the end or at the start of the new expansion should be answered as well.

We are willing to hear out the reasoning behind the changes but we are also asking that these changes not go into effect. There is an uproar across all three communities regarding this change which is said to be "unwanted" because this change comes at a time where a major change to how a class plays does not usually happen. Reducing class complexity while retaining overall performance does not mean it is the best change which is why we are against it.

[CuragaCura]

I won't argue about whether those changes are good or bad, I occasionally play NIN but always hated SAM, so idk.

But what you think about is an utopia, there is no one out there that would be able to do that in a way that makes the community like it. I don't know what the meaning of those changes were (Most probable guess : run homogeneization), but say we ask 100 parsers how to adjust jobs. They might have ideas that feel good, but will they be balanced ? Will they really feel good on the long term, when you don't get THAT crit, or have .01 too much GCD and your whole rotation gets thrown overboard ? Won't those parsers be hated by the community ?

I'm not saying the changes they made are good, or even purposeful. I'm just saying reworks like that will always be criticized, and it's no surprise the community as a whole despise it, juste like they despise the SMN rework, or pretty much every rework ever. Let's wait and see, and discuss once we all know what exactly we're talking about.

No one asked for an utopia. They wanted a clear and concise line of communication regarding these changes as well as a confirmation regarding their thoughts.

[whitemoonflower]

I won't argue about whether those changes are good or bad, I occasionally play NIN but always hated SAM, so idk.

But what you think about is an utopia, there is no one out there that would be able to do that in a way that makes the community like it. I don't know what the meaning of those changes were (Most probable guess : run homogeneization), but say we ask 100 parsers how to adjust jobs. They might have ideas that feel good, but will they be balanced ? Will they really feel good on the long term, when you don't get THAT crit, or have .01 too much GCD and your whole rotation gets thrown overboard ? Won't those parsers be hated by the community ?

I'm not saying the changes they made are good, or even purposeful. I'm just saying reworks like that will always be criticized, and it's no surprise the community as a whole despise it, juste like they despise the SMN rework, or pretty much every rework ever. Let's wait and see, and discuss once we all know what exactly we're talking about.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't find asking for better communication between the development team and the community to be "utopian". As OP originally stated, proposing changes like these in a timeframe that allows for feedback to be properly reviewed could prevent these situations from happening to such an extent. Yoshi-P was even quoted here saying, "So I would appreciate it if you can send us your feedback to the official forums so that we can look into it. The people in the community team will gather and round up the feedback and report to the team," in regards to the Hrothgar hairstyles issue. But it's a matter of acting on those words.

Not everyone plays each job the same; I understand. But despite there being multiple playstyles for SAM, the vast majority of SAM mains agreed that removing Hissatsu: Kaiten was a bad idea. Opinions may differ on some matters, but they could at least assess the general consensus before removing abilities and gutting entire rotations.