Ninja, do we need it?

[viion]

OK, If you enjoy playing a game which mages can be a tanker (by cheating) and ninja are warriors, fighting face to face... that's not what SE and FF fanbase want

i love you but the guy who soloed dodore didnt cheat its quite easy to do.

[Evangela]

i love you but the guy who soloed dodore didnt cheat its quite easy to do.

OK, it's not cheating, just exploiting

[viion]

OK, it's not cheating, just exploiting

cuse of the whole hate reset? I guess but its extremely risky, you lose claim for a good 30+ seconds. And besides SE made hate reset like that, hes only using the mechanics SE supply.

Or maybe they just messed up XD like how you can get buffalo stick in the ground so he cant attack (identical to how AV was first killed in XI)

[Visch]

that's not what SE and FF fanbase want

...You know what SE wants? Uhh.

Obviously SE wanted NIN to tank in 11 because they later gave them enmity+ equipment. Later on they even gave NIN those Innin and Yonin abilities that were kind of like a tanking and a DD mode.

Who cares what the FF "fanbase" wants? I'm sure everyone in 11 wanted to kill AV before they upped the level cap. Did SE let them? For about 3 days before then they nerfed souleater.

It's not about what you or anyone on a forum wants. It's SE game and they'll do what they see is right.

Developers in 11 even said they were impressed with player's ingenuity making NIN a tank.

I don't know what makes anyone feel ninja shouldn't be a tank in 14 except for personal opinions.

Ninjas have never been tanks in Final Fantasy, they have been in XI only because of a combination of development oversight and user exploiting.

How many of those games were MMOs besides XI? Right none.

They obviously wanted SAM and MNK to try tanking in XI too giving them dodge moves, high parry skill, third eye, etc. Does that mean they were considered a tank? No.

Didn't we want unique classes? because having everyone and his mother perfectly able to play tank isn't exactly something that encourages uniqueness or characterization.

What? Because they make a NIN class similar to how it was in XI that means anyone is a tank? Did you even play XI? If it was really that broken they could just make it so any utsusemi type move is NIN only like speed/life surge.

Also, the problem with class uniqueness isn't in the classes it's that any class can use almost any move from any other class at any level with usually good results. The system is so customizable it loses any uniqueness by way of restriction and limits.

OK, it's not cheating, just exploiting

If it's that much of an exploit it will be patched, same that happened to punishing barbs and firm conviction. If they don't do it later today I'll be surprised.

[viion]

If it's that much of an exploit it will be patched, same that happened to punishing barbs and firm conviction. If they don't do it later today I'll be surprised.

Hey ummm what do you mean "if they dont do it later today i'll be surprised?" Dodore has been soloed by a number of people since the initial solo and the initial solo was done 28th February. There isnt really a way you can patch it unless you make a force depop if going unclaimed, which would prolly piss off a lot of people when they add other NM's and people whipe for something silly or "test try" and then mob just depops, rage has to be reset somehow. It cant stay raged forever.

[Visch]

Hey ummm what do you mean "if they dont do it later today i'll be surprised?" Dodore has been soloed by a number of people since the initial solo and the initial solo was done 28th February. There isnt really a way you can patch it unless you make a force depop if going unclaimed, which would prolly piss off a lot of people when they add other NM's and people whipe for something silly or "test try" and then mob just depops, rage has to be reset somehow. It cant stay raged forever.

Emulate needs to be nerfed. That is how he was taking such little damage.

[viion]

Emulate needs to be nerfed. That is how he was taking such little damage.

And it most likely will, but i doubt on tonight patch. Unless they sneak it in like barbs, but barbs took months to get nerfed.

[Abriael]

.
Obviously SE wanted NIN to tank in 11 because they later gave them enmity+ equipment. Later on they even gave NIN those Innin and Yonin abilities that were kind of like a tanking and a DD mode.

They gave ninja enemity plus equipment much later in development simply because they assessed that forcing people to change roles after they covered them for quite a while would have caused problems. It has nothing to do with SE WANTING ninja to tank.

How many of those games were MMOs besides XI? Right none.

Marginal. RPGs have Tanks, Healers and Damagers exactly like MMORPGs.

They obviously wanted SAM and MNK to try tanking in XI too giving them dodge moves, high parry skill, third eye, etc. Does that mean they were considered a tank? No.

They were obviously defined as tanks by their abilities. The fact that those abilities were badly developed because SE didn't have any experience in balancing a MMO doesn't change that.

What? Because they make a NIN class similar to how it was in XI that means anyone is a tank? Did you even play XI? If it was really that broken they could just make it so any utsusemi type move is NIN only like speed/life surge.

Actuallyyes, for quite a while. Since there are already three classes that have tanking potential, adding a foruth means that a whole lot of people can tank. Considering that most encounters really just need *one* good tank, having too many tank-capable classes is redundant.

Also, the problem with class uniqueness isn't in the classes it's that any class can use almost any move from any other class at any level with usually good results. The system is so customizable it loses any uniqueness by way of restriction and limits.

No, the problem with class uniqueness is the blurring in *roles*

[Visch]

They gave ninja enemity plus equipment much later in development simply because they assessed that forcing people to change roles after they covered them for quite a while would have caused problems. It has nothing to do with SE WANTING ninja to tank.

What is "much later"? US release? LOL.

There was one patch forever ago saying something like "enmity will now be lost when a shadow image from utsusemi is absorbed". Everyone was freaking out saying NIN wasn't a tank. If SE didn't want NIN to tank that's all they would have to have done. Just like they changed the enmity on BRD songs and DRK spells much later to gimp NIN/BRD and NIN/DRK.

They could have done anything they wanted dude nothing was stopping them lol. It's pretty obvious they didn't care about "covering" for anything when they gimped DRG and RNG.

having too many tank-capable classes is redundant

K, this is some failed logic. We have GLA, and PUG. For DD we have MRD LNC and ARC along with CON and THM who can also support and heal. Adding any class would be redundant LOL. We don't "really need" anything. THM can solo Dodore. A good GLA and like 2 THMs can kill Great Buffalo with DoTs.

Just because you only need 1 tank to kill something doesn't mean their should only be 1 job that can do it, I. E. one excelling at something the others were bad at and vice-versa.

[vax]

What is "much later"? US release? LOL.

There was one patch forever ago saying something like "enmity will now be lost when a shadow image from utsusemi is absorbed". Everyone was freaking out saying NIN wasn't a tank. If SE didn't want NIN to tank that's all they would have to have done. Just like they changed the enmity on BRD songs and DRK spells much later to gimp NIN/BRD and NIN/DRK.

They could have done anything they wanted dude nothing was stopping them lol. It's pretty obvious they didn't care about "covering" for anything when they gimped DRG and RNG.



K, this is some failed logic. We have GLA, and PUG. For DD we have MRD LNC and ARC along with CON and THM who can also support and heal. Adding any class would be redundant LOL. We don't "really need" anything. THM can solo Dodore. A good GLA and like 2 THMs can kill Great Buffalo with DoTs.

Just because you only need 1 tank to kill something doesn't mean their should only be 1 job that can do it, I. E. one excelling at something the others were bad at and vice-versa.

Innin and the enmity ability one was made mid 2009 i guess.
The bard thing it was because SE can fix the song enmity, but them can't fix others spells because with them nin can tank and their don't want that. Example: NIN/DRK use stun, souleater, others spells, if SE adjust those spells any other class could just spam souleater/stun without winning hate making pld job really easy. Pretty much the same with provoke, if their adjust provoke enmity because with that nin can tank on exp party, pld will get fucked.