On the topic of DRG being busy and button bloat.

[Aco505]

However, on the topic of button bloat, the biggest problem isn’t “do we need the ability in our rotation currently” it’s “is this redundant?” And DRG right now has several redundant abilities in my eyes.

And in terms of redundancies, yes I think Spineshatter should be replaced by Dragonfire Dive at higher levels. I think these skills are redundant in that one doesn’t feel very strong for its animation and the other now locks us in place twice.

We have to be careful when we say that actions are redundant because we can fall down a very slippery slope quite easily. We're seeing this with SAM and NIN to a certain extent, where some specific abilities are removed or changed when the issues lie elsewhere. By this rule of thumb, many abilities can be considered redundant. What about Bow Shock, Carve and Spit, current Mug...? An argument could be made that actions like these are not needed and could be removed but then jobs become skeletal versions of themselves. While it'd be ideal that every action has a clear role and purpose, sometimes just dealing damage can be an alright role to have.

DRG does not suffer from the bloat that many other jobs, such as SAM, have where they get a lot of buttons just for AoE that are relegated to dungeons only. All of our oGCDs are used in every scenario. If we start removing oGCDs, then the even minute burst windows will go from feeling busy to feeling dead. The main difference between odd and even minute windows, besides the buffs we use, is the number of Spineshatter Dive charges that we can use (1 or 2) and Dragonfire Dive. That's literally 2-3 more damage buttons. Life Surge isn't even used in some even minute windows and you normally only weave one Wyrmwind Thrust as opposed to odd windows, where the rule is normally two.

If we understand Spineshatter Dive having a role similar to Shadowbringer for DRK, then it's just a question of the devs deciding how to improve Dragonfire Dive to be a bit more impactful, even if it ends up just being a potency boost, because it's kind of "meh" for a 120s ability. It should hit harder if anything.

DRG is the only oGCD-focused melee, with NIN being similar in a way but having way more GCD interactions and nuances due to mudras, raijus and Phantom Kamaitachi. If we remove oGCDs from DRG but the job stays the same, then we're just simplifying it for no reason. It would require a more general rework or overhaul, and it'd be sad to simplify the abilities of the only oGCD-focused melee job, as it would lose its uniqueness.

This does not mean that there are not things that cannot be polished, perfected or even reworked, but they cannot be done in a vacuum, as otherwise we'll end up with a job stripped of its identity.

I've never laughed soo hard reading all the self contradicting posts in this thread.

Everyone says Drg is perfect the way it is, don't change "execpt for this and this and that". "Its fine and not bloated, it just needs streamlining".

People have different opinions and therefore it's normal for contradictions to happen. Unless you believe someone in particular is contradicting themselves?

Still, DRG is a well-rounded job, but this does not change the fact that it could be better, more polished or have quality of life improvements to specific aspects of its kit.