Living Dead Fix

[Ath192]

Because there is no failure. You can't mess up the timing and accidentally die.

Which every other tank can. You just set it at the start of a fight and never have to think about it.


Having to push a button after means nothing, unless it's "within half a second" which is undo able with the games ping, because otherwise, there is no drawback. Long CD doesn't matter.

There is a lot of thinking and complexities involved in this approach. A healer could waste damage and GCDs healing up the DRK when they dont need to because they don't know how the job works. A newbie DRK may just heal back immediately and waste the optimization power of waiting to the last minute and negate 2 or 3 autos and an overly greedy one may die waiting to the last microsecond so you can mess up the timing and accidentally die. The healers failing to keep the DRK from triggering their invuln will also introduce complications in hard fights because they are usually preplanned, and losing it will cause the party to adjust to it on the fly, something that already happens when tanks make a call they needed that invuln sooner than intended.

So there is a lot of nuance, way more than PLD having a "Press this button to become immortal with no consequence for 10 seconds"

So even with these changes the PLD inlvun leaves less room for error than the DRK would have. So I don't see it as overpowered personally.

[Mosha]

There is a lot of thinking and complexities involved in this approach. A healer could waste damage and GCDs healing up the DRK when they dont need to because they don't know how the job works. A newbie DRK may just heal back immediately and waste the optimization power of waiting to the last minute and negate 2 or 3 autos and an overly greedy one may die waiting to the last microsecond so you can mess up the timing and accidentally die. The healers failing to keep the DRK from triggering their invuln will also introduce complications in hard fights because they are usually preplanned, and losing it will cause the party to adjust to it on the fly, something that already happens when tanks make a call they needed that invuln sooner than intended.

So there is a lot of nuance, way more than PLD having a "Press this button to become immortal with no consequence for 10 seconds"

So even with these changes the PLD inlvun leaves less room for error than the DRK would have. So I don't see it as overpowered personally.

These nuances are more on the lower end of content where people don't know what they're doing and the punishment for failure is less. but in the higher end of content, It removes any margin of failure. for a Practical example doing Elmo in P3s I would turn it on like 30secs before I needed it so it removes the risk of being popped early and I could just press the button to cleanse myself at 1sec left on the buff. Currently, I have to faff with the teather drag it to 3 hope I pushed holmgang in time then heal myself so I don't die to autos when holmgang wears off. is the same process for a current living but without the self-healing.

[Ath192]

These nuances are more on the lower end of content where people don't know what they're doing and the punishment for failure is less. but in the higher end of content, It removes any margin of failure. for a Practical example doing Elmo in P3s I would turn it on like 30secs before I needed it so it removes the risk of being popped early and I could just press the button to cleanse myself at 1sec left on the buff. Currently, I have to faff with the teather drag it to 3 hope I pushed holmgang in time then heal myself so I don't die to autos when holmgang wears off. is the same process for a current living but without the self-healing.

Yeah exactly, and holmgang is on a 4 minute cooldown on a tank that can top itself back up. Certainly seems like a fair trade off. Explain to me why DRK shouldn’t have a good and unique invuln. Your ability to hit an invulnerability button is not a high end tank skill. It is a minimum requirement for savage content that is not hard to pull off.

If the problem is such that the ability to have this on until it procs is that big of a deal it could simply be scaled down to having to hit it before just like all the other tanks but have a self benediction afterward, which would differentiate it somewhat from the other tank invulns and putting the DRKs salvation in his own hands. I don’t know that the auto healing they are adding on hit is really a better choice to manual control over it, specially because if it’s not enough you may as well bene him to be on the safe side or if it’s too much then it may wipe the invuln effect too early in cases of multiple tank busters during a burst phase.

But alas, if the player base is content with DRK consistently having an underperforming invuln I guess I’m an outlier.

[Mosha]

Your ability to hit an invulnerability button is not a high-end tank skill. It is a minimum requirement for savage content that is not hard to pull off.

But by your suggestion, you want to make it foolproof. even during prog it removes the player having to work out all the timings etc.

all other tanks but have a self benediction afterward,

Where can any tank self bene during a savage fight? outside of lots of adds or really nonoptimal WAR shenanigans or PLD spamming clem.

But alas, if the player base is content with DRK consistently having an underperforming invuln I guess I’m an outlier.

Its not that the playbase is fine with it, but at the moment it looks they don't like your suggestion either.

[Raoabolic]

outside of lots of adds or really nonoptimal WAR shenanigans or PLD spamming clem.

Not really good to undermine your own argument, lol. That said I'll wait to see how much healing the new TBN does before I give up on drk even more than I already have. I read the writings on the wall and leveled a war and pld to 90 already. StB did drk dirty and I doubt they will be able to fix drk/tbnbot in such a way it makes playing the class feel rewarding or at the very least fun.

[Mosha]

Not really good to undermine your own argument, lol. That said I'll wait to see how much healing the new TBN does before I give up on drk even more than I already have. I read the writings on the wall and leveled a war and pld to 90 already. StB did drk dirty and I doubt they will be able to fix drk/tbnbot in such a way it makes playing the class feel rewarding or at the very least fun.

Doesn't undermine it. if you doing stuff like holding IR and IC and using them to play around BW your playing really badly. e.g no one does this.

[Raoabolic]

Doesn't undermine it. if you doing stuff like holding IR and IC and using them to play around BW your playing really badly. e.g no one does this.

Just because it's not optimized doesn't mean it also not possible. We all know about the 8 war meme but let's see 8 drks clear some current tier savage content!

[Ath192]

you want to make it foolproof. even during prog it removes the player having to work out all the timings etc.

Theres no etc. its just that lol, at worst determine the visual queue you'll use to press it. And I don't think it's as fool proof as you think. I can think of very few scenarios where the party doesn't have to adjust if it doesn't go off right when its meant to. If it procs at the wrong time and the party can't adjust the DRK will die anyways later when it was actually needed. No different than the tank dying and the OT having to take over.

Where can any tank self bene during a savage fight? outside of lots of adds or really nonoptimal WAR shenanigans or PLD spamming clem.

PLD can spam clem but that is a dps loss. War can do the following to self bene all on OGCD by popping thrill, equilibrium, blood whetting and shake it off.

So Thrill is a 20% Total HP heal(HP expansion if you want to look at it that way) plus enhances other healing, Equil is just a big heal enhanced by thrill, Bloodwhetting restores HP on each GCD and Shake it off is a heal and shield that also benefits from the other abilities being active. By the end of this sequence you have self bene'd and also still have rampart/vengeance/reprisal to offset incoming damage if needed.

Its not that the playbase is fine with it, but at the moment it looks they don't like your suggestion either.

Fair, and they don't have to. At least I got the reason why, which seems to mainly stem from people liking having to time it manually instead of auto like all the other invulns. Just trying to get away from all the homogenization thats been occuring and quite frankly there are only so many ways to make an invuln different and also viable.