Honest question for people dissatisfied with WHM:

[Grimoire-M]

To be honest the worst part about the DPS simplification on healers is the incentive to ask them to meet you halfway (Just maintain DoTs) got worse.

I don’t care if people screw up if they’re trying and learning in casual content. The demands are low enough. I’ll even use my own tools to make their lives easier and account for my own mistakes. What I can’t stand is being punished for their lack of effort or having my experience made worse to pander to their perceived difficulty with something as basic as wall to wall pulls.

The game isn’t that hard. Just make it fun for a wider range of skill levels. It makes getting that good rewarding.

[Faafetai]

Something I am unsure has been mentioned and I know this game does not have it at all. Theoretically even if whm did not gain anymore dps buttons. The devs need to entertain the idea that healers are support. This game does not have any crowd control really except for maybe sleep, stun, slow(arms length). This is one huge thing I would honestly be happy with. They kind of do this for whm aoe, for astro's cards(also I swore I read gravity use to heavy), shields and mitigation, Expedient, and Chain Stratagem. Some more thought put in, it does not just need to be extra dps it can be something else to make things more intuitive. I am unsure how others feel about the differences between scholar/sage/astro compared to whm, but the fact you can plan certain things out is a huge deal to me. It doesn't have to be more nuke abilities just something that allows for more of a general thought provoking feel. I have currently gotten to 60 something on whm and so far going from 49 to 50 already feels better and than from there getting assize, asylum, lillies, tetra, it feels better to play already compared. Just more of that would be nice as a start. I can't seem to find it but there was a meme with a whm going into palace of the dead and not wishing to go to the real world because you lose all of your skills that were super fun to play around with.

[ty_taurus]

Something I am unsure has been mentioned and I know this game does not have it at all. Theoretically even if whm did not gain anymore dps buttons. The devs need to entertain the idea that healers are support. This game does not have any crowd control really except for maybe sleep, stun, slow(arms length). This is one huge thing I would honestly be happy with. They kind of do this for whm aoe, for astro's cards(also I swore I read gravity use to heavy), shields and mitigation, Expedient, and Chain Stratagem. Some more thought put in, it does not just need to be extra dps it can be something else to make things more intuitive. I am unsure how others feel about the differences between scholar/sage/astro compared to whm, but the fact you can plan certain things out is a huge deal to me. It doesn't have to be more nuke abilities just something that allows for more of a general thought provoking feel. I have currently gotten to 60 something on whm and so far going from 49 to 50 already feels better and than from there getting assize, asylum, lillies, tetra, it feels better to play already compared. Just more of that would be nice as a start. I can't seem to find it but there was a meme with a whm going into palace of the dead and not wishing to go to the real world because you lose all of your skills that were super fun to play around with.

One issue with this is if you're trying to slow down the rate of DPS usage, you would need to make GCD crowd control/utility. Then you create an odd situation where you need to weigh the value of that CC vs the DPS you're losing by not casting Glare or whatever Glare equivalent spell your job has. For example, if I have a GCD spell that inflicts slow for 15 seconds, is that worth losing DPS potency for? Is the amount of damage I'm preventing going to save me future GCD healing spells thus allowing me to use Glare more in the future? Most likely not. The other option is to create DPS neutral offensive spells that also inflict Debuffs. Once upon a time, that's what Stone, Ruin, and Stella did--inflict damage and Heavy the enemy (though those were a DPS loss). The best way to go about that would be to make those spells the same potency but cost more MP, like what SCH's Ruin II used to be. Or perhaps you could do something like give WHM an Afflatus debuff in a world where Misery is DPS neutral, or likewise have it generate Addersting.

[Beddict]

This game does not have any crowd control really except for maybe sleep, stun, slow(arms length).

The game has the following CC:

• Stun (Tank, Melee DPS, WHM)
• Interrupt (Tank, Physical Ranged DPS)
• Sleep (Healer, Caster DPS)
• Heavy (Physical Ranged DPS)
• Bind (Physical Ranged DPS)
• Slow (Tanks, Melee DPS, Physical Ranged DPS)

How much of that is used? A single Interrupt on the final boss of the level 87 Dungeon. CC could be effective if there were more adds in fights, maybe something like True Heart in A7S where you could Heavy the add to give DPS more time to kill it and prevent Quickthinx from getting buffed. SE would never actually do that though because they probably don't want parties to feel forced to bring a specific Role.

[MiaShino]

The game has the following CC:

• Stun (Tank, Melee DPS, WHM)
• Interrupt (Tank, Physical Ranged DPS)
• Sleep (Healer, Caster DPS)
• Heavy (Physical Ranged DPS)
• Bind (Physical Ranged DPS)
• Slow (Tanks, Melee DPS, Physical Ranged DPS)

How much of that is used? A single Interrupt on the final boss of the level 87 Dungeon. CC could be effective if there were more adds in fights, maybe something like True Heart in A7S where you could Heavy the add to give DPS more time to kill it and prevent Quickthinx from getting buffed. SE would never actually do that though because they probably don't want parties to feel forced to bring a specific Role.

If you ever do the big chugus pulls in Heaven on High you can realize just how starved for CC we really are most quickly. There is room with three big stone tablet mobs on later floor that cast interruptible raid wide. Hope you brought three physical ranged or three tanks! That raid wide can wipe everyone on the floor through walls, have seen this occur. Would make dungeon pulls far more of the interesting if they were half as threatening as HoH pulls can be.

Even more amusing about CC in FF14 land.. Support.

White Mage is only healer with useful CC? We do not get interrupt skill. Only one healer has stun. We did not get upgraded sleep role action yet all caster deeps did? Nothing quite as feist inducing as watching the blinking orange cast bar fill up while I sit there on my support class unable to do anything about it. Here goes Ram's Voice into Dragons Voice, time to eat floor because no one interrupted!

[Ksenia]

It makes no difference to me at this point. My Whm is 90 through MSQ turn in and roulette. I primarily queue on Dnc now.

Whm was thrown under the bus to make Sage look better. Nothing SE can say will make me change my mind on that. I refuse to level Sage because of it and I refuse to play Whm because of it. I have an active FC. Queue times aren't an issue for me and I'm not crawling through the entire expansion on a gimped class.


What can they do? Lock roulette if they want, so I get up to 50, up to 60, up to 70 dungeons in the roulette. Because the Whm still does fine up to that point. I'm 53 years old. I'm not their 'target audience' anymore. They don't give a shit what I do and I don't give a shit what they do.

[RinaShinomiya]

It makes no difference to me at this point. My Whm is 90 through MSQ turn in and roulette. I primarily queue on Dnc now.

Whm was thrown under the bus to make Sage look better. Nothing SE can say will make me change my mind on that. I refuse to level Sage because of it and I refuse to play Whm because of it. I have an active FC. Queue times aren't an issue for me and I'm not crawling through the entire expansion on a gimped class.


What can they do? Lock roulette if they want, so I get up to 50, up to 60, up to 70 dungeons in the roulette. Because the Whm still does fine up to that point. I'm 53 years old. I'm not their 'target audience' anymore. They don't give a shit what I do and I don't give a shit what they do.

Nah im pretty sure WHM been under the bus for quite some time now. Has nothing to do with SGE releasing. StB WHM was a thing to behold for all the wrong reasons and that expansion didnt get a new healer

[IceBlueNinja]

Nah im pretty sure WHM been under the bus for quite some time now. Has nothing to do with SGE releasing. StB WHM was a thing to behold for all the wrong reasons and that expansion didnt get a new healer

for sure cause i started as whm and for a so call beginner easy healer going through it was so miserable up to hw where I then bought an ast lvl 60 jump ticket before stoemblood release and been in love with ast since until ew.. ruin it.

[Rilifane]

It makes no difference to me at this point. My Whm is 90 through MSQ turn in and roulette. I primarily queue on Dnc now.

Whm was thrown under the bus to make Sage look better. Nothing SE can say will make me change my mind on that. I refuse to level Sage because of it and I refuse to play Whm because of it. I have an active FC. Queue times aren't an issue for me and I'm not crawling through the entire expansion on a gimped class.


What can they do? Lock roulette if they want, so I get up to 50, up to 60, up to 70 dungeons in the roulette. Because the Whm still does fine up to that point. I'm 53 years old. I'm not their 'target audience' anymore. They don't give a shit what I do and I don't give a shit what they do.

11111 spam exists from level 1, your core rotation doesn't change from level 4 to 90.
Imagine starting a dps and knowing at level 4 "This is what I'll do for all eternity". WHM was fine at 60. During HW. When it had a better rotation than 11111. But that time is gone and now it's definitely not fine at level 60.

SB WHM Lilies were the meme gauge of the expansion, they never fixed it during SB and only tried with small "increased proc chance" buffs to make it more interesting which failed hilariously and the advice every WHM got was "ignore your gauge, save UI space" until they finally made them into something more useful with ShB but also gutted every healer to 1 dot, 1 nuke.
ShB made it into a clip mage that had to rely on getting hard-carried by their co heal because its free healing was even lower and more difficult to handle than after the 1,5s cast change.
EW also gutted the only thing that made it a pretty good prog healer: Thin Air. Its job gimmick also got worse because it's a bigger dps loss than before. The capstone ability and its ST skill are both the least flexible. At least the 6.1 change will make Lilybell slightly better for mechanics that don't hit multiple times in quick succession.

SGE had nothing to do with any of it. If anything, SCH suffered from SGE release because SGE got lots of the good stuff that was once unique to SCH and now they'll be unwilling to give it back because another healer already has it.

for sure cause i started as whm and for a so call beginner easy healer going through it was so miserable up to hw where I then bought an ast lvl 60 jump ticket before stoemblood release and been in love with ast since until ew.. ruin it.

I'll never get how people can still recommend WHM for beginners. It's pure misery at low levels and the least forgiving healer that only teached bad habits. Once you got the full HW healing kit it's okay for tank healing for a bit until every healer zooms past it when they get their ShB skills and it has to wait until 7freaking6 for a MP free instant Medica. Until then it only has Asylum and Assize as oGCDs. Perfect for ingraining the habit of spamming Medica II into every WHM's brain.

Misery is probably just weaponized WHM salt. That's why it's such a big nuke.

[Recon1o6]

snip

tbf i would argue that all healers are pure misery currently. Sage less so if you like gundam but otherwise its as bad as the rest.

A big problem with the game is that it flat out does not make learning basic combat techniques mandatory and/or explain well. Things like ABC, doing damage as a healer, using ogcds in weave windows etc.

A lot of the people i seen tht reccomend whm are people who aren't healers.
If someone asked me for healing reccomendations, I would straight up tell them dont