the normal content is too easy

[Ronduwil]

Well sure, but that's not because it's difficult. It's because they haven't memorized the mechanics yet.

What are you proposing in terms of difficulty? The only difficulty in this game is in memorizing the mechanics and rotation. It's literally just memorization. If you're saying that memorization isn't difficult, then there's no difficulty in any MMO that I'm aware of. Half the time, when I see someone whining for more difficulty on MMO forums, they're complaining about other players getting to have fun and complete content without having to memorize all the extra crap that they did. The other half of the time is players complaining that eight button rotations just aren't challenging enough for them and that SE needs to throw another eight into the mix to make their job interesting again.

Sorry, but neither of these playstyles appeal to me. I memorized tons of useless garbage on the way to getting my college degrees, and I memorize tons of stuff for work already. At the end of the day, I don't want to memorize a bunch of meaningless garbage for a video game. I'm fine just learning a handful of mechanics and responding as they come on the fights. When I was younger I felt differently, but now I don't feel compelled to study all the fights as if my entire future were riding on them anymore. Some people like to do that, and that's fine by me. What's not fine is when they turn around and complain that because they studied the fun out of the game the developers should make the studies into baseline requirements for everyone so that they can feel challenged again. Like you just said, it's not difficult; it's just tedious, annoying, and unfun.

Same with the 16-button rotations. At what point is enough enough? My favorite aspect of Classic WoW was the simple one-button frost mage rotation. That freed me up to exploit the heck out of marginalized abilities like Blink and Polymorph. I'm not saying that we need to go back to one-button rotations, but I'm honestly fine with four-button single-target rotations and four-button AoE rotations. I don't find joy in juggling half a dozen ogcd weaves and timers.

If you want a difficult game, feel free to ramp up the difficulty for yourself. Take all the consolidated skills, and bind them to multiple buttons so that you can make your six button rotation into a nine button rotation again. Stick to Extremes and Savages that require you to maintain your focus through every fight and optimize every aspect of your gameplay. Just let the rest of us enjoy the chill game that we know and love. The game's not being dumbed down. You're just older and more experienced than you used to be.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Stick to Extremes and Savages that require you to maintain your focus through every fight and optimize every aspect of your gameplay. Just let the rest of us enjoy the chill game that we know and love. The game's not being dumbed down. You're just older and more experienced than you used to be.

I wish savage required me to maintain my focus. The amount of times i’ve zoned out or dozed off while healing this tier is…embarrassing to say the least. To say the game isn’t being dumbed down is a flat out lie, when healers have had their kits gutted compared to previous expansions and numerous jobs have gotten dumbed down from their previous iterations.

[Ronduwil]

What content with mass appeal? They hardly even appealed to the mid-core community, let alone the hardcore players. Them turning the game into a visual novel with baby's first MMO gameplay isn't going to keep people around for long.

Yeah, it's so unappealing that they're regularly having to suspend sales of the game to avoid overlodading their hardware. You don't seem to understand what mid-core actually is. Average is average. An average player is worse than the top 49% of the playerbase and better than the bottom 49%. An average player is barely better than a bad player. From the descriptions in this thread, what you're likely referring to as mid-core is better than 75% of the player base. That's still a high end player. Also, where do you get the idea that numbers are down? People are logging in less frequently because they've finished the MSQ, and as I've said time and again, there's no mass appeal in the repetitive end game content that you want the rest of the game to emulate. Just because I don't log in every single day anymore doesn't mean that I dropped my sub. As soon as the patch drops, you'll see the insane queues again.

[Leshiken]

Maybe spend some time outside and less gaming? Or change to a new game, than being an addict to one game? I do not know what you expect from a casual game for casual players. Also, why does it matter to you if you are going to complain? Again, play another game.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Maybe spend some time outside and less gaming? Or change to a new game, than being an addict to one game? I do not know what you expect from a casual game for casual players. Also, why does it matter to you if you are going to complain? Again, play another game.

These forums are literally for offering feedback and criticisms. I will never understand why people like you go “play another game.” OP is using these forums for what they’re meant to be used for. Where is your logic? “Why does it matter to you if you are going to complain.” Most people who gives critiques are doing so because they enjoy the game and want to see it get better. The clownery going on in this thread i swear

[ACE135]

Even when we do get normal content that's designed to be harder, people just avoid it anyways. Orbonne is my favorite 24 man this game has ever released and I never get to do it because everyone just ilevel cheeses alliance raids to get LOTA.

The issue isn't that it's hard so people don't want to do it. It's because there's no POINT to doing it. You aren't rewarded for the increased effort so why bother? If you have a choice between shopping in an empty store vs shopping during black friday but with the exact same deals available? You'd choose to go on the empty day. Why? Because it isn't worth the headache, effort, or your time to go fuss about with massive crowds for the exact same rewards. People go to black friday sales and put up with the difficulties because the rewards are worth their time investment. As a roleplayer, even the outfits from that tier of raids are low quality and nothing I'd ever use on any of my characters. I don't know a single other roleplayer who wants them either. And what do you get for your time and effort? The exact same thing you get on a much easier and less time-invasive raid. So why do it?

If they would scale the gear and everything so that the raids feel nearly like they were on release, all raids would need some amount of effort to get through.

[Kyrj]

Because you are empirically wrong, incorrect, your statement is false. And you are spreading misinformation. And I corrected you, lest some SMN starts healing around because he read your comment in these forums and you contribute to the issue.

Why wouldn't a SMN heal? If it came down to it and a heal no matter how small won the fight, it's worth it. You should bring everything to the table, not doing so is just lazy and is why the player base is the way that it is. Because people promote mediocre skills rather than pushing people to do better.

[Kyrj]

We are getting Criterion dungeons through this expansion.

For the normal version, yes. For extreme it's different because it combines two of them at once forcing you to work out the safe spot with no telegraphs. For extreme, it seemed evident that the people I talked to in parties did not learn to lead after only one clear, but after enough clears where they actually tried to identify the safe spots themselves.

So again, people who know what to do will lead. The fight is 100% just follow those who know wtf to do. Once you've got it down 100% next time you're in there you can lead. Again you people make it out to be some massively difficult fight when in reality it's the easiest EX we've gotten in a while.

[Lauront]

The narrative value of fight difficulty is a better argument than anything else, and one I wholly agree with. Zodiark is pretty difficult for a normal and it makes the experience better- so were Shinryu (which was by far the hardest story trial since I started playing), Susano, and Nidhogg. Hades, Hyedalyn, and Endsinger were far too easy given the gravity of their fights and it made them less cool outside of pure cinematic flair. I don't think EVERY fight should challenge you that much, but it should where it's appropriate. The dungeons this time around are much harder than the trials and I really don't think that's appropriate.

This is pretty much a big problem I have with it, i.e. that it just fails to convey the scale of the threats involved (mixed feelings on Zodiark after first clear, it could be better; 4.3 and 5.3 were closer to what I'd consider a decent level for normal trials, but there should be leeway above that), especially since they don't want them to ultimately be dealt with in raids or non-MSQ trials (an approach some other games take.) Over and above that, I think it's also a problem that you can end up creating too huge a gap between normal content and the next level up. Dungeons during SHB became laughably easy. I would be sympathetic to the need (even if not ideal) to keep it that way (although not like the SHB post-MSQ dungeons) if they weren't expanding the trust level to all dungeons and trials in time. Now? Not so much. If people truly want the social experience, that includes communicating in party chat about mechanics to some minimally demanding degree. It won't kill them.

Expert dungeons are probably the stand out example of simply poor design. We've reached a point where healers literally aren't required. Naturally, this is partly because tank sustain is enormous this expansion but it's still ridiculous that dungeons are such a joke an entire role can be omitted without a second thought.

When people ask for the game to be harder, they aren't wanting Savage or even Extreme difficulty. They're wanting to feel engaged. Going into a dungeon or trial you know you'll utterly obliterate isn't all that fun for a lot of people. It also leads to poor habits being formed. Why dodge an AoE and lose uptime as a melee DPS when you know it'll do next to nothing damage wise? We see all these arguments about YPYT without discussing the actual reason people do it. They can. A healer isn't threatened by three mobs with the ferocity of a six month old kitten.

All in all, making the game easy and approachable is perfectly fine. There is, however, a middle ground between easy mode and "so incredibly safe a toddler could clear."

Well put.

[MisterNublet]

Yeah, it's so unappealing that they're regularly having to suspend sales of the game to avoid overlodading their hardware.

Regularly? Stop exaggerating. It was one time for over a little of a month, and only because a handful of popular streamers started playing FFXIV which brought on an influx of players SE wasn't accounting for the release of Endwalker. Guess what? Those same streams have all practically dropped FFXIV.

Average is average.

What an absolute genius.

Also, where do you get the idea that numbers are down?

Also

People are logging in less frequently because they've finished the MSQ

Incredible, folks! He answered his own question. I'll tell you anyway. Through Steam player count. While it doesn't include players using the FFXIV launcher, you can still get a general impression. Player count is already back down to numbers prior to the overwhelming influx of players caused by the streamers.

and as I've said time and again, there's no mass appeal in the repetitive end game content that you want the rest of the game to emulate. Just because I don't log in every single day anymore doesn't mean that I dropped my sub.

Cool, and I say there is a mass appeal in repetitive end game content. Doesn't make your opinion the right one.

As soon as the patch drops, you'll see the insane queues again.

/doubt