Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Soxxx]

HEALING as a healer should be engaging, not DPSing. it's already bad enough that the devs caved in to the whiners and normalized Healer DPS. What they should adjust the gameplay to is making players having to heal more and DPS less. More unpredictable damage, less healing downtimes, more hostile dmg output across the board.

A lot of people didn't like this take but I think you're totally on the right track, we became HEALers for a reason. The problem is, in my eyes, there's two options going forward: Either give us healers more DPS abilities, or give us a reason to actually use our healing abilities (more outgoing damage).

Doing neither leaves us in an absolutely unacceptable state where healers do neither: 70-90% of any content I don't have to look up guides for consists of dodging AoEs and pressing my one, single AoE button over and over like a bot, even doing roulettes with total randoms. I'm perfectly happy with either, extremely happy with both. But doing neither outright makes healer as a role a horrible experience to play, and totally invalidates its reason to even exist.

[WaxSw]

If anything and unfortunately… a lot of the Japanese players seem to not only think healears are fine but even fun based on the top liked comments from that thread… I think I will stick to being a crafter and gatherers main at this point lol

Isn't the top liked comment saying that it would be fine incrementing the means of attack and diferentianting the healers?

tbh one of the things that surprised me the most is that a lot of the ones who are going with the whole "healers are fine, they should heal" aren't main healers... in fact in that whole thread I only counted 5 people who had a healer under main class

[Absurdity]

A lot of people didn't like this take but I think you're totally on the right track, we became HEALers for a reason. The problem is, in my eyes, there's two options going forward: Either give us healers more DPS abilities, or give us a reason to actually use our healing abilities (more outgoing damage).

Doing neither leaves us in an absolutely unacceptable state where healers do neither: 70-90% of any content I don't have to look up guides for consists of dodging AoEs and pressing my one, single AoE button over and over like a bot, even doing roulettes with total randoms. I'm perfectly happy with either, extremely happy with both. But doing neither outright makes healer as a role a horrible experience to play, and totally invalidates its reason to even exist.

It's not that people didn't like Alexion's take, it's just a pointless endeavour to ask for more healing, it is never gonna happen.
The devs have said time and time again that they won't increase the general healing requirement, so most people don't see a point in even trying anymore.

But let's entertain the idea for a second, let's assume they DO increase the healing requirement.

In what content, all of it? Never gonna happen. You already have players who can't outheal the damage of a wet paper bag in dungeons, so obviously SE isn't going to alienate those players by suddenly requiring them to actually, you know, heal properly.

So that leaves you with only Savage and Ultimate, something that doesn't even make up 10% of the game's content. On top of that savage is always going to become easier the more you progress in any given raid tier as everyone in your team acquires better gear, giving you less to heal once again.

And this is the big problem with "giving you more to heal", it is heavily reliant on the content itself and your itemlevel compared to the minimum requirement.

Whereas more interesting dps options are reliant on nothing else but your ability to press buttons.

[AngeliouxRein]

Isn't the top liked comment saying that it would be fine incrementing the means of attack and diferentianting the healers?

tbh one of the things that surprised me the most is that a lot of the ones who are going with the whole "healers are fine, they should heal" aren't main healers... in fact in that whole thread I only counted 5 people who had a healer under main class

Yeah I noticed that too, granted with all the rough translations, it just seemed like there was a lot of push back underneath all the “get off my lawn” (go back to English forum energy) comments. I’m not ignoring the other comments that at least started to discuss things on what would happen if they add more DPS abilities or interesting heal abilities. It’s just I have to acknowledge the huge difference between us and them for healers. There’s obviously a lot more people over there ok with it. So much so, those who try to argue or even discuss have a lot more, “meh, what’s the problem” type responses vs over here. We get like sprinkle of those types of comments compared to on the JP side.

Not that we should suddenly be silent but we all can see an even stronger reason as to why Yoshi is so reluctant to change even one healer into what we want. Sadly…

[Nethereal]

Yeah I noticed that too, granted with all the rough translations, it just seemed like there was a lot of push back underneath all the “get off my lawn” (go back to English forum energy) comments. I’m not ignoring the other comments that at least started to discuss things on what would happen if they add more DPS abilities or interesting heal abilities. It’s just I have to acknowledge the huge difference between us and them for healers. There’s obviously a lot more people over there ok with it. So much so, those who try to argue or even discuss have a lot more, “meh, what’s the problem” type responses vs over here. We get like sprinkle of those types of comments compared to on the JP side.

Not that we should suddenly be silent but we all can see an even stronger reason as to why Yoshi is so reluctant to change even one healer into what we want. Sadly…

Are there rules against posting NA(English) threads in the JP(Japanese) forums? Because it sounds to me like everyone should just be posting in JP if they want any attention.

[AngeliouxRein]

Are there rules against posting NA(English) threads in the JP(Japanese) forums? Because it sounds to me like everyone should just be posting in JP if they want any attention.

Honestly..I'm not even sure. I only heard from others that if you post like an English thread in JP that it will get moved or deleted. That can be said vice versa. As to people commenting on other threads in their own language, I think the mods might treat those comments the same and just delete them . Otherwise, it seems like, as long as you at least type your comment in their language you're fine. Some of the people from this thread has been typing/translating their comments in Japanese and seem to be alright. The better way to do it is to start it off in Japanese and then include English translation in there if you feel it will help get the point across.

[Deceptus]

In what content, all of it? Never gonna happen. You already have players who can't outheal the damage of a wet paper bag in dungeons, so obviously SE isn't going to alienate those players by suddenly requiring them to actually, you know, heal properly.

Let me put it this way, I think the most blatant example of the Devs not trusting the ability of the playerbase is the Paglth'an final boss Lunar Bahamut.

This is supposed to be the final dungeon of the ShB expansion when the stakes are supposed to be the highest and that boss literally hits like a wet noodle. Nothing takes more than 20% of a party's HP. The "tank buster"? Doesn't even come until 5 min into the fight, if you see it you know you have poor dps.

AND IT BARELY EVEN HURTS A MIN ILVL TANK.

That's the kind of stuff people want in dungeons when they say they want more to heal. Make the AoE's hurt a bit because they're spread out. Make tank busters hurt so tanks LEARN to mitigate properly. Dungeons are supposed to be teaching tools, the places you can implement new mechanics with low stakes on learning. If you fail a dungeon mechanic you can quickly get back and try again. Right now, they're snoozefests.

[Colino]

Resurrect 60 people in a single alliance raid, individually healing every tank in each party.

Carry the entire group to the win, get 0 commendations because I left my dead weight co-healer on the ground after I gave them my swift while I prioritized reviving an entire alliance.

Painful story but you took it well, at least

[HyoMinPark]

A lot of people didn't like this take but I think you're totally on the right track, we became HEALers for a reason. The problem is, in my eyes, there's two options going forward: Either give us healers more DPS abilities, or give us a reason to actually use our healing abilities (more outgoing damage).

Doing neither leaves us in an absolutely unacceptable state where healers do neither: 70-90% of any content I don't have to look up guides for consists of dodging AoEs and pressing my one, single AoE button over and over like a bot, even doing roulettes with total randoms. I'm perfectly happy with either, extremely happy with both. But doing neither outright makes healer as a role a horrible experience to play, and totally invalidates its reason to even exist.

People didn’t like the take because the poster blamed the playerbase (or “the whiners” as they called us) for the current state of healers, rather than taking a bit of time to review the history of healing in this game and realize that it was the developers that made us all into gimped damage dealers. It didn’t really have anything to do with asking for healers to be able to heal more (which we have already continuously asked for for the last several years), and everything to do with them vilifying those evil green DPSers.

[Soxxx]

It's not that people didn't like Alexion's take, it's just a pointless endeavour to ask for more healing, it is never gonna happen.
The devs have said time and time again that they won't increase the general healing requirement, so most people don't see a point in even trying anymore.

But let's entertain the idea for a second, let's assume they DO increase the healing requirement.

In what content, all of it? Never gonna happen. You already have players who can't outheal the damage of a wet paper bag in dungeons, so obviously SE isn't going to alienate those players by suddenly requiring them to actually, you know, heal properly.

So that leaves you with only Savage and Ultimate, something that doesn't even make up 10% of the game's content. On top of that savage is always going to become easier the more you progress in any given raid tier as everyone in your team acquires better gear, giving you less to heal once again.

And this is the big problem with "giving you more to heal", it is heavily reliant on the content itself and your itemlevel compared to the minimum requirement.

Whereas more interesting dps options are reliant on nothing else but your ability to press buttons.

Actually, for those reasons, I think you're totally right. Asking for more reasons to heal would go against the core philosophy of how they've been changing healers since the game came out, after actually considering that. Granted, I don't think it's a waste to ask for more midcore content like (Hard) dungeons in ARR; I feel that expert dungeons that are OPTIONAL should present at least somewhat more of a challenge than the MSQ dungeons rather than just being some extra hallways. Those could be fun places to fulfill this ask, and I don't know their take on that as of yet. However, I do totally agree that no matter what, healers absolutely need at least somewhat more complexity to their DPS rotation. Downtime isn't ever going to go away and keeping it to pressing one button at a time isn't ok.