Hissatsu: Kaiten

[Luin]

There are games out there dedicated to steep learning curves and classes with difficulties. Let me just fast spam some skills to kill for fun.

Not all jobs need to be the same level of complexity. There can be complex jobs and simple jobs. Players can swap jobs freely, like to WAR.

If players want to play a job without learning it, they can play with Trusts or friends. They could even watch a clear video and push buttons on their controller. It would achieve the same sense of accomplishment without diminishing the experience for other paying subscribers.

[Minato777]

you see having a shred of complexity to our jobs can be kinda fun and that not what they are going for with this game. sucks

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Not all jobs need to be the same level of complexity. There can be complex jobs and simple jobs. Players can swap jobs freely, like to WAR.

If players want to play a job without learning it, they can watch a clear video and push buttons on their controller. It would achieve the same sense of accomplishment without diminishing the experience for others.

Some people like certain aesthetics and want to enjoy the jobs that match said aesthetics.

I'm not asking for 5 buttons, but many jobs have close to 3 full hotbars now. Its a bit much. Personally 16-20 buttons is enough for me.

[Minarisweet]

Its kinda sad people forget jobs can be deep, fit an aesthetic and have a lot of buttons these are not mutually exclusive... but for some reason we have to keep lowering the bar for SE everytime more because they want it easier to "balance" jobs or something.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Its kinda sad people forget jobs can be deep, fit an aesthetic and have a lot of buttons these are not mutually exclusive... but for some reason we have to keep lowering the bar for SE everytime more because they want it easier to "balance" jobs or something.

Having a lot of buttons is not necessarily deep.

Shoha and Shoha 2 being different buttons is not deep.

I feel like people don't understand what deep and complex are, and just think "but all these buttons I have to use and think about makes it deep!"

Its a static rotation. Nothing is deep. Complexity only comes from having to manage the hotbar placement to make sense and be usable. And I'd wager a lot of people complaining about skills going away use plugins to align the fight, CDs, and collapse combos into 1 button.

[Minarisweet]

Having a lot of buttons is not necessarily deep.

Shoha and Shoha 2 being different buttons is not deep.

I feel like people don't understand what deep and complex are, and just think "but all these buttons I have to use and think about makes it deep!"

Its a static rotation. Nothing is deep.

I said deep and have a lot of buttons, not deep because it has a lot of buttons. You might not recognize where im coming from but that's fine.

[RyuDragnier]

I have no issues with Kaiten going personally, but if they want to lower button bloat, they can go a lot further than this for SAM. Make Ikishoten turn into Ogi Namikiri upon use. Make Senei the level 70 skill, make level 72 a trait that gives it a line AoE cleave with a 50% damage falloff(meaning Guren). Change Shoha to Shoha 2 at Level 82, once again a cleave skill with a 50% damage falloff for all other enemies hit. Right there that's 3 less buttons. Not to say there aren't issues with that idea, since I know there are times and places where you'd rather not line AoE or AoE in general, but there is more they can do to drop the button bloat on SAM.

[Luin]

Some people like certain aesthetics and want to enjoy the jobs that match said aesthetics.

I'm not asking for 5 buttons, but many jobs have close to 3 full hotbars now. Its a bit much. Personally 16-20 buttons is enough for me.

And some people like certain playstyles and want to enjoy those playstyles. These playstyles will never return. Something like HW MCH is just gone. It will never exist again. An entire job concept thrown away.

There are jobs with similar aesthetics. Play those instead. Like DRK's aesthetic? Don't like DRK? Play RPR. Like BRD's aesthetic but don't like BRD? Play MCH. Like Ninja's aesthetic but not the playstyle? Samurai.

I cannot glamour my actions and traits menu.

[Hyuinn]

"Hissatsu: Kaiten" is an integral part of the samurai job fantasy and a highlight of the entire rotation, it has one of the best animations in the entire game that the team should be proud of. Removing it would hurt the experience for me and others by a significant amount, especially when there are numerous other ways of reducing bloat as mentioned in this thread. I really hope the dev team reconsider their decision.

[Hyuinn]

Having a lot of buttons is not necessarily deep.

Shoha and Shoha 2 being different buttons is not deep.

I feel like people don't understand what deep and complex are, and just think "but all these buttons I have to use and think about makes it deep!"

Its a static rotation. Nothing is deep. Complexity only comes from having to manage the hotbar placement to make sense and be usable. And I'd wager a lot of people complaining about skills going away use plugins to align the fight, CDs, and collapse combos into 1 button.

People may use such plugins, but none of them touched Kaiten, which begs the question why the dev team would prioritize that over any other thing to solve the button bloat.