A certain someone isn't coming back [Spoilers]

[StriderShinryu]

That's not what he said, he said "They were worried about how to handle Zenos. He is the only one who sees the WoL as an adventurer and not just a hero, so the fight is more of an extra than a final boss". It's pretty clear that it wasn't about them not knowing what to do and more how precisely they wanted to get him across, especially with his dialogue in Endwalker, everything is very deliberate and to think otherwise just feels like cope tbh.

Exactly. You can interpret what he meant how you want to interpret it. I'm not saying what they did with him wasn't deliberate, but it was very clear he was just an extra piece in the story and they just forced him in because he didn't fit. If you took what YoshiP said as how you describe it then that's fine, but I'm basing it on how Zenos actually came across in EW. Copium indeed

[KageTokage]

Judging from the no-context scene of some Ascians (?) attempting to summon voidsent in the 6.1 trailer (Which seems to be a flashback due to the filter), I'm having a stronger hunch then ever that Zenos' avatar is going to end up being a problem...moreso with that ominous voice saying "Ah, I am returned at last"...

I cannot make out what the insanely distorted voice accompanying the aforementioned scene is saying, though.

[OGChocolateThunder]

They came out and said that seemingly because people didn't get the impression from the Q&A that he was actually dead, so they needed to spell it out even more plainly...though at this point I don't think everyone will believe it unless we run into him in the Lifestream or something.

He literally said he wanted to die, and that was proof enough for me that he was actually gone, since it quite frankly would've been idiotic to defy his stated intent again after he had already cheated death once to get what he wanted.

This interview was conducted before the PLL actually, on Feb 8th, so what was said here and the suspicions that were aroused from the PLL aren't really matching up and, to be frank, are somewhat inconsistent in tone. I think they had the opportunity to squash any speculation during the PLL but they didn't for some reason. They went with this "see how you feel" business which doesn't really present a conclusive answer since everyone interprets whether Zenos "died" or "died died" very differently.

[SannaR]

This interview was conducted before the PLL actually, on Feb 8th, so what was said here and the suspicions that were aroused from the PLL aren't really matching up and, to be frank, are somewhat inconsistent in tone. I think they had the opportunity to squash any speculation during the PLL but they didn't for some reason. They went with this "see how you feel" business which doesn't really present a conclusive answer since everyone interprets whether Zenos "died" or "died died" very differently.

Yet in the same interview you have Oda-san wondering if they should have put some sort of "He's dead Jim" subtitle during that part.

[OGChocolateThunder]

Yet in the same interview you have Oda-san wondering if they should have put some sort of "He's dead Jim" subtitle during that part.

They did. They were straightforward regarding the fates of Venat, Zodiark, Emet, and Hythlodaeus, going so far to talk about what happened to their souls. With Zenos all they talk about is his body which, tbh, doesn't mean much. The "Will Zenos come back to life again?" question only needed a yes or no response, none of this "how do you feel" shenanigans.

[SannaR]

They did. They were straightforward regarding the fates of Venat, Zodiark, Emet, and Hythlodaeus, going so far to talk about what happened to their souls. With Zenos all they talk about is his body which, tbh, doesn't mean much. The "Will Zenos come back to life again?" question only needed a yes or no response, none of this "how do you feel" shenanigans.

True it didn't need the how do you feel bit. Yet Yoshida also told people to rewatch that cutscene and to think about what's being said and then what do you think that means? Along with well he stopped breathing, riiiiiiiight? So he must be dead. Course they could have avoided all of his EW bits if they had left him dead at the end of 4.0. But no they had him come back and make people wonder if the WoL could actually die if a person with a fake echo can just come back. He had such potential, but they went and had him sit around for a whole expansion and some change. While occasionally giving Fandaniel death glares at his "almost" harming the WoL a few times. I'm glad he's dead dead and really hope we don't see his body being dragged around by his reaper avatar. I do hope they do something with it though cause that's a waste of a unique model to barely show it.

[KingEli]

I mean most of the build up for him in ShB just didn’t come true in EW. His whole major speech at the end of ShB of us coming to him full of rage didn’t really happen. He didn’t really do anything to warrant it either…which is either they copped out of having him do something drastic and major to us or our allies or they forgot about it.

Do you not understand red herrings and how they work in writing? 5.5 was written while EW was almost done with development and in fact proves even more so that it was intentional. They didn't "forget" about anything, the full of rage was meant to be him controlling Zodiark to wreaking havoc but he wasn't able to nor was it Fandaniel's plan. It was a fake out, and the game is very aware of that

[KizuyaKatogami]

Do you not understand red herrings and how they work in writing? 5.5 was written while EW was almost done with development and in fact proves even more so that it was intentional. They didn't "forget" about anything, the full of rage was meant to be him controlling Zodiark to wreaking havoc but he wasn't able to nor was it Fandaniel's plan. It was a fake out, and the game is very aware of that

Yes, just like how everything in endwalker is a fakeout. The final days actually being a threat and causing worldwide havoc, the body snatch scene, the scions in ultima thule. Yes it’s all fakeouts, and that’s why it sucks lmao.

Also...we just recently learned there were rewrites...so uh it most likely wasnt intentional for that to not come to fruition.

[Cleretic]

Yes, just like how everything in endwalker is a fakeout. The final days actually being a threat and causing worldwide havoc, the body snatch scene, the scions in ultima thule. Yes it’s all fakeouts, and that’s why it sucks lmao.

Also...we just recently learned there were rewrites...so uh it most likely wasnt intentional for that to not come to fruition.

Sure, there were rewrites, but we've generally learned from previous expansions that the final script for an expansion is being done around when the .4 patches are released, if not earlier. There just straight-up wasn't time for them to have rewritten something between 5.55 and 6.0.

Rewrites happened, but you can't declare rewrites to be the fault of everything you don't like or understand. Sometimes things don't play out as you personally expect or want them to, and that's just how it was always planned to be.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Sure, there were rewrites, but we've generally learned from previous expansions that the final script for an expansion is being done around when the .4 patches are released, if not earlier. There just straight-up wasn't time for them to have rewritten something between 5.55 and 6.0.

Rewrites happened, but you can't declare rewrites to be the fault of everything you don't like or understand. Sometimes things don't play out as you personally expect or want them to, and that's just how it was always planned to be.

Generally is an understatement. The fact is we don’t entirely know, especially with all of the delays that EW brought. I never said they’re the fault of everything people don’t like or understand, but there’s very obvious signs of it like empty plot threads that lead to nothing or dropped plot threads entirely that make it incredibly obvious. Writers aren’t perfect, it’s time to start understanding that instead of worshipping everything.