What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Skyborne]

Again, given that the game has the WOL specifically question the Ancients on both of those points, I believe that those were exactly what we were supposed to find "scary". They went out of their way to have our PC react in a specific way, with no regard for how the player would actually react or whether the narrative leading up to it was cohesive.

As I said, the moment Hyth said my WOL was "shocked" by how he killed butterflies to make my robes, it brought me out of the story and made me wonder what the hell he was talking about. I've murdered hundreds of things just to sell their body parts.

My lvl 90 LTW WoL: "Wow, very efficient! Cutting out the middleman."

[Ixon]

There's numerous examples of the Sundered being far crueller and more callous than the Ancients.

Curious for curious sake, was there any sort of written or spoken proof that the Ancients were not prone to as malicious or cruel intentions as the sundered? I assume that just because we did not get a side quest where someone in Elpis tried to rob you or sell your organs doesn't mean all of Etheirys was innocent? We know that in Elpis specifically, if we considered all creations to be "life" some of their actions could be seen as "cruel" akin to things like animal testing(not exactly the same realm, but the closest thing I could relate it too). There were obviously laws and for those laws there must have been people breaking them. Even Hesperos in Pandemonium for all we know(so far) could be a more evil or cynical Ancient. Perhaps this was their thought of trying to present the Ancients as "scary" as possible without going too far off the deep end? just speculation for fun.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Again, given that the game has the WOL specifically question the Ancients on both of those points, I believe that those were exactly what we were supposed to find "scary". They went out of their way to have our PC react in a specific way, with no regard for how the player would actually react or whether the narrative leading up to it was cohesive.

As I said, the moment Hyth said my WOL was "shocked" by how he killed butterflies to make my robes, it brought me out of the story and made me wonder what the hell he was talking about. I've murdered hundreds of things just to sell their body parts.

Yeah i see what you mean now, i mean just look at the Uldah coliseum. Literally killing wild animals for entertainment and sport. Or the diadem where one of the animals there is referenced to have almost gone extinct due to the mass amount of killings done by the "adventurers"(aka us)

[kpxmanifesto]

What the Ancients were doing was dying, and the expansion's narrative theme was how precious it was to keep living, no matter what. The entire basis of that story thread was that the Ancients saw death (for themselves, but especially for non-Ancients) as no big deal, and Hermes (and later Venat) are the only ones who saw this attitude as a problem.

I personally don't see dying after having fulfilled one's purpose as morally grey, though. That happens to humans in real life too. They serve a purpose by working during adulthood, then they grow old and are unable to fulfill that purpose anymore, and then they die. I don't really perceive that as a moral issue. Sacrificing non-ancients can be a morally grey area depending on how you look at it, although I personally wouldn't consider it to be.

[Lauront]

My lvl 90 LTW WoL: "Wow, very efficient! Cutting out the middleman."

The other one that comes to mind is that NY fate with the sentient mochi, where it's summarily put to death... and the Allagan chimera in Azys Lla that's growing too smart, so it apparently has to be put down. There's countless instances of this stuff, but for a character that normally butchers just about everything in sight with little question, the butterfly thing is a comparative nothing-burger, so I can see what CrownySuccubus means by them trying to push the idea of it through that reaction, irrespective of how much (or rather, little) sense it actually makes.

[Rulakir]

I think it just goes to show he and I (and I suspect some others here too) are on entirely different wavelengths.

Yeah, I don't understand this at all. Not only do the sundered have a callous disregard for life (they did not pass Hermes' test), but so does our society. Comparatively, yes, Elpis appeared heavenly.

Not to mention that creations are made of aether and returned to aether. These aren't creatures that were born into the world and then slaughtered, in which case they'd still be no different than the sundered or us. If anything, part of what bothered me with Hermes before he went full tilt was that the lykones were indiscriminately killing and he didn't want to destroy them. As I recall, they had tried to work with them before but they always ended up violent. I thought, how can he claim to care about life, but want to keep the lykones when they're a threat to it?

At this point, I think if FFXIV doesn't have a QA team for the storylines they need to form one. I'm tired of hearing about how he's surprised by audience reaction to things.

Given that he was also confused by people wanting stubble for male characters...I honestly believe he isn't getting any meaningful feedback from the official forum.

Seriously? Ugh. I know this thread is somewhat infamous now for being 200+ pages of EW criticism. I can only hope they have someone on the team reading it.

[Tarrinus]

I thought the Ancient's "returning to the star" was a positive thing about them. If a people that is functionally immortal also has no issue with death then they can truly live their lives to the fullest. Otherwise you end up with tragedies like PotD's Nybeth Obdilord.

[Brinne]

I mean, it's literally the entire point of Endwalker.

What the Ancients were doing was dying, and the expansion's narrative theme was how precious it was to keep living, no matter what.

This just caught my eye, apologies. It's sort of odd when you consider "Flow," as described by Ishikawa, as a song about gently accepting death, and part of Meteion's answer as the song of hope to the universe. Endwalker is a very strange expansion, huh.

EDIT:

Seriously? Ugh. I know this thread is somewhat infamous now for being 200+ pages of EW criticism. I can only hope they have someone on the team reading it.

Well, if nothing else, again, he acknowledges outright in that interview that the audience had a very different reaction than the one he anticipated re: Hermes and Ancient society, and the tone on Venat in the Q&A was very different from the one in the game. Mistakes of execution versus intent in writing happen - I think the question is how they adapt to that disconnect going forward.

[kpxmanifesto]

Once again, I am not agreeing with the story's morality, but that's what it is.

Hold on a second. You mean to say your personal interpretation of the story's morality.

[CrownySuccubus]

I personally don't see dying after having fulfilled one's purpose as morally grey, though. That happens to humans in real life too. They serve a purpose by working during adulthood, then they grow old and are unable to fulfill that purpose anymore, and then they die. I don't really perceive that as a moral issue. Sacrificing non-ancients can be a morally grey area depending on how you look at it, although I personally wouldn't consider it to be.

Well, first, I don't agree that working is inherently a human's "purpose". Especially not in a world like the one we live in at present.

Secondly, I really don't see how you're unaware of the difference between dying of old age and natural causes, and willingly committing suicide after reaching some arbitrary "purpose". What you're suggesting is that if, say, Scarlet Johannsen decided she'd served her purpose in life, she should just jump off a bridge and that be considered perfectly normal. The Ancients weren't broken, withered old people. They literally killed themselves while in perfectly sound body and mind. And even if they were old, I don't see old people as having no more purpose in life. But hey, maybe that's just me.