What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Thaciscokidd]

That’s surprising to me. I just find him dull personally, i see him as adding nothing to the story, he killed off and outlasted characters who had way more potential and depth to them, and in the end his storyline in ShB and EW is literally the exact same in SB, to just fight us. But we already did that. So why are we doing it again?

I've(a Zenos fan) have always saw Zenos as the antithesis to the WoL. While the WoL fought for the betterment of all, Zenos fought for his own enjoyment. He was our Vegeta in all but name, we overcame him in Stormblood and every since then he was trying to get his win back.

I believe his story suffered from a lot of the buildup from the 5.x patches with little payoff in 6.0 til the very end when his speech was my favorite part of the whole story.... But I do worry that he's becoming 14's Seymour and if we do have to face his Reaper Avatar down the line is actually the Avatar and not the Avatar wearing a Zenos suit.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

I've(a Zenos fan) have always saw Zenos as the antithesis to the WoL. While the WoL fought for the betterment of all, Zenos fought for his own enjoyment. He was our Vegeta in all but name, we overcame him in Stormblood and every since then he was trying to get his win back.

Well, one of the reasons why i never found Zenos' BS entertaining was that his end goal was to kick the bucket like a chump. For me, at least in that regard, it's less antithetical and more two peas in a pod, problem being that the other guy just wants one last hurrah as he bites the dust.

Anyway, since he already got his, twice, can he just have the grace to accept it already?

[Brinne]

I know a lot of people sort of get frustrated with that final battle because "Why are we giving Zenos what he wants?" (I'm not targeting you with this specifically or anything, Kizuya; it's an opinion I've seen a lot of thrown around by a lot of people, including friends.) But I think the point of it is that it isn't about "giving Zenos what he wants" anymore - it's about Zenos giving us something, if you look at what he's saying and how his attitude has changed from what it was before.

I've always been friendly to the idea that the WoL was partially my own crafted character, and partially their own character, so I don't have much issue - even though my WoL is a polite goody-two-shoes type - nodding along to that deep down, there is something to Zenos's evaluation and an appeal about offering that space where WoL can "relax" in a weird way and go all-out, joyous music blasting in the background, with zero stakes involved. It puts kind of a fun twist on my goody-two-shoes character, even.

And then we got to share an introspective moment where bestie asked, and seemed truly interested, in our perspective on life and if it was all worth it in the end after all. I'm not going to lie. I joke, but a part of me really would love to drag Zenos along on nonsense missions he doesn't give a crap about - but WoL cares about it for some incomprehensible reason, and he supports us as a friend, so whatever, sure - and hear his commentary about all of it than the vast majority of the Scions.

That being said, I do think his ending in EW was basically perfect for the character and I don't seriously resent leaving it at that, if that is truly the end. But I'll carry you in my heart forever, Zenos!!!

[KizuyaKatogami]

Lmao, hard disagree. Zenos is, like, the one character in EW who truly had a legitimate character development arc in EW. And it was great, weirdly touching (???), even, and I love him. Listen, the Scions may like me a lot, but ultimately it's because my actions align with their interests. Zenos, post-character development, has my back even if he and his interests don't give a shit about my current activities. In a lot of ways, Zenos is the one character who aligns perfectly with EW's attempted themes.

Bestie is the best bestie!

I didn’t really notice it much tbh. Like people say his whole waiting to fight us until after we beat meteion was development but…i feel like that’s just him not being dumb? Can’t fight us if Meteion destroys the planet. He just seemed the same ole wants to fight us to fight us cuz that’s all he likes. I didn’t see what it added to the story at all. He also caused the destruction of garlemald which had far more interesting people than him so To each their own though.

I guess also its just, what was the point of bringing him back? If it was gonna be the same ole thing. I wish i had the option to turn down his fight at the end of EW tbh lol. Why give him what he doesnt deserve.

[Brinne]

I didn’t really notice it much tbh. Like people say his whole waiting to fight us until after we beat meteion was development but…i feel like that’s just him not being dumb? Can’t fight us if Meteion destroys the planet. He just seemed the same ole wants to fight us to fight us cuz that’s all he likes. I didn’t see what it added to the story at all. He also caused the destruction of garlemald which had far more interesting people than him so To each their own though.

I guess also its just, what was the point of bringing him back? If it was gonna be the same ole thing. I wish i had the option to turn down his fight at the end of EW tbh lol. Why give him what he doesnt deserve.

Zenos learned the true meaning of friendship and went from a complete hedonist to figuring out the process of actually caring for someone in a more selfless way. \o/ Yes, he still wants to fight us, but his priority has shifted from wanting to fight us for his own sake to wanting to fight us for our sake - "You sought something in me. When I realized was it was, [I rushed over to Sharlayan to help you]." "This is the sole pleasure I know, and the sole pleasure I have to share." From demanding his contest for himself, to telling us he won't stop us if we want to walk away - but he'd like the chance, in his still-warped Zenos way, to provide us a space for a part of ourselves that's difficult to express with all the heroics that others expect for the sake of making us happy.

Thank you, bestie!!!!!

It's a very simple arc and comically clearly telegraphed by Alisaie yelling at him and him thinking about it all sad and alone later (lmao). But I think I found it all the more weirdly powerful and touching and poignant in its simplicity.

And for me - the fact that bringing him back was pointless, that he of all people got to live again and it was indeed totally and utterly arbitrary and pointless and meaningless, is part of why I think he's actually a perfect fit for EW's themes, which largely WAS "what to do when you realize it's all pointless?" There's no rhyme or reason to who gets to live and who gets to die, and Zenos is no exception to that, but Zenos was basically the center of the one possible answer to that meaningless element that EW provided that I was all on board with: you learn to care about other people.

I will not only reward him with his duel, I will reward him with a lifetime of hotblooded chocobo racing. THE POWER TO TRANSCEND [WITH SUPER SPRINT]!!!!!

[TShimmer]

Never really loved or hated Zenos, I found him an entertaining antagonist to just beat in SB, and wished that was the end for him, but I have to say, my opinion on him jumped at the end of EW, I was so dead and disconnected from the story at that point, that him just showing up and asking why I haven't defeated Meteion yet made me laugh, I was like "I know right?", also his fight was more fun than the trial for me, so he ended that experience on a higher note than I was expecting. Definitely a better motivation than all the Scions making fake sacrifices.

[Sicno]

Since Stormblood I always felt that there was more to Zenos's story, that his desire for a fierce battle in order to "feel" something would have some more development. And once I saw him made his "return", jumping from body to body I was like "yeah, I knew it! his real backstory is coming later". Aaaaaaaaaaand... it never happened. Instead he became a mere power lvl monster and a poor attempt at Vegeta, and they had the gall to flaunt "yeah, we couldn't be bothered to make an actual backstory. Would it have changed anything?" And honestly if they couldn't deal with that by the end of this story, the "story to end all stories" I don't see how I could care about anything relating to that character if he ever comes back.

Speaking of wasted potential, remember the multiple times through the story where the echo was said to allow "transcending the barriers of the soul"? Like the ascian fusion at the end of Aetherochemical Research Facility and Zenos possessing Shinryu, not to mention all his body swapping. It was said that we hadn't yet gained full control of what the echo could do... And then there's the mess with the echo and the blessing of light in EW. I'm not completely sure how that game of calvinball ended but it looked like soul-transcending was completely dropped.

[KageTokage]

Speaking of wasted potential, remember the multiple times through the story where the echo was said to allow "transcending the barriers of the soul"? Like the ascian fusion at the end of Aetherochemical Research Facility and Zenos possessing Shinryu, not to mention all his body swapping. It was said that we hadn't yet gained full control of what the echo could do... And then there's the mess with the echo and the blessing of light in EW. I'm not completely sure how that game of calvinball ended but it looked like soul-transcending was completely dropped.

I'm really hoping the Echo isn't going to just be a convenient plot device going into the future and that we get more context behind it; particularly if we're going to be learning deeper truths about the aetherial sea and Etheriys.

The aftermath of the second coming of the Final Days would be a logical time to give it some focus again as the starshowers in Thavnair, Corvos, and presumably other lands overseas would presumably have awakened more people to the Echo.

[AziraSyuren]

Since Stormblood I always felt that there was more to Zenos's story, that his desire for a fierce battle in order to "feel" something would have some more development. And once I saw him made his "return", jumping from body to body I was like "yeah, I knew it! his real backstory is coming later". Aaaaaaaaaaand... it never happened. Instead he became a mere power lvl monster and a poor attempt at Vegeta, and they had the gall to flaunt "yeah, we couldn't be bothered to make an actual backstory. Would it have changed anything?" And honestly if they couldn't deal with that by the end of this story, the "story to end all stories" I don't see how I could care about anything relating to that character if he ever comes back.

Speaking of wasted potential, remember the multiple times through the story where the echo was said to allow "transcending the barriers of the soul"? Like the ascian fusion at the end of Aetherochemical Research Facility and Zenos possessing Shinryu, not to mention all his body swapping. It was said that we hadn't yet gained full control of what the echo could do... And then there's the mess with the echo and the blessing of light in EW. I'm not completely sure how that game of calvinball ended but it looked like soul-transcending was completely dropped.

He had a backstory. A very cool one that perfectly explains his behavior and motivations, at that.

It was just in side content.

All of it.