What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[tokinokanatae]

Blossoms floating in the wind in a palace and fantasy structures in the air aren’t unique to Asian or French locations, though. Radz-at-Han is positively stunning and still has that fantasy vibe. You may not like it personally, but I’ll choose it over the snoozer that is the more classical Labyrinthos.

[Theodric]

As much as I'm all for varied locales, I don't think we've even begun to scratch the surface in regards to what could be put into the game when tapping into various real world European cultures. There's barely any Polish influence within the game, for example - and being Scottish myself, I'd love to see some zones that take heavy inspiration from Scotland's varied landscape and folklore.

[CrownySuccubus]

No, but they sure do help. The simple fact of the matter is that it is easier to sell European/Asian fantasy games to the Final Fantasy audience than whatever falls under the umbrella you describe as "unusual fantasy locales."

You have to consider the target audience here. You will have an easier time retaining and attracting players by doing new takes on locations that people have consistently expressed interest in seeing as opposing to ticking off cultures and regions like a checklist to fit some sort of quota.

Bruh, what?

Final Fantasy X, a FF game that was specifically modeled on far eastern cultures and aesthetics, is one of the highest-selling FF games ever. I don't think gamers are so simple that having one or two less European castles or aesthetics is going to lower sales. I don't even want to get into the "quota" thing, because that smells like politics waiting to happen.

[aveyond-dreams]

As much as I'm all for varied locales, I don't think we've even begun to scratch the surface in regards to what could be put into the game when tapping into various real world European cultures. There's barely any Polish influence within the game, for example - and being Scottish myself, I'd love to see some zones that take heavy inspiration from Scotland's varied landscape and folklore.

This is where games like FFXVI and Dragon Age really show their strength, with each European culture they represent feeling distinct in various ways. Although some here may feel that Europe is full of the same castles copypasted over and over again, nothing could be further from the truth.

The stark contrast between the British-inspired Ferelden and the French/Italian Orlais was something I remember enjoying a lot when I played Dragon Age Inquisition. The party members of those games were also quite ideologically diverse despite being from roughly the same geographic region. I hope to see a similar contrast in FFXVI given how that game seems to have some inspirations from Dragon Age.

When people want to buy a video game, they are fundamentally looking for something that appeals to them whether it is a futuristic, European, or Asian style setting. In an ongoing game like this one, if it starts failing to provide what I am looking for and what initially attracted to me to it, then why should I remain? Why should I buy and play 2 years of a "New World Expansion" when another game could come out and actually give me the locations/characters I want to see?

I do not believe this is an unreasonable position. A quick google search of Scotland landscapes brings up beautiful images that remind one of Elden Ring's world or Coerthas when it wasn't frozen over that are very much worth exploring, and being a kingdom it brings with it cultural aspects that simply appeal more to me than something from Australia.

Bruh, what?

Final Fantasy X, a FF game that was specifically modeled on far eastern cultures and aesthetics, is one of the highest-selling FF games ever. I don't think gamers are so simple that having one or two less European castles or aesthetics is going to lower sales.

FF players are often interested in far eastern locations, myself included. I have expressed multiple times that I would like to revisit the ones in FFXIV again someday, but 7.0 isn't the time to do it. A return to a traditional Heavensward style expansion is what many want to see in 7.0. In any case one look at the numbers of Elden Ring's sales shows you that people worldwide are largely interested in worlds like the one it created, and if given the choice I will gladly spend my time there than the New World, especially with the state of the current main cast.

You will have a difficult time convincing me to play a game with Alphinaud once again mediating tribal conflicts in the New World or Australia while G'raha Tia eats the latest cuisine that most of the budget went into, and the others just being there barely contributing anything of value.

[tokinokanatae]

I think we're going around in circles, but there is one last thing I would say. I'd be wary of assuming your own taste is the taste of all players or that it's a purely rational "fact." More than one person in the topic has said they like the variety of locations that FFXIV explores and would be open to more. Assuming nothing fantastical could come out of locations like Africa or Australia is a failure of your own imagination, not the imagination of other players or--potentially--the devs.

[aveyond-dreams]

I think we're going around in circles, but there is one last thing I would say. I'd be wary of assuming your own taste is the taste of all players or that it's a purely rational "fact." More than one person in the topic has said they like the variety of locations that FFXIV explores and would be open to more. Assuming nothing fantastical could come out of locations like Africa or Australia is a failure of your own imagination, not the imagination of other players or--potentially--the devs.

Well when we get an Australia themed fantasy world that sells as good as Elden Ring's world did, please do let me know.

[KageTokage]

Well, if we're getting Ilsabard as the next expansion, it stands to be the region most strongly influenced by European culture outside of Eorzea.

I've liked what little we've seen of it in places like Terncliff, so I would personally love to see more; perhaps getting to actually visit Werlyt and use it as a base of operations within a land still largely dominated by the Garlean legions.

On a more on-topic subject, I do kind of wonder if a notable figure perhaps making a Youtube video about some of more Endwalker's more...questionable elements would actually succeed at swaying opinions because as far as I've noticed I've seen nothing but gushing praise for it in that regard. I've particularly been enjoying Nobbel's (One of the former premier WoW loremongers) playthrough of the game because he really does not take things at face value and is constantly questioning the moral implications of events on both the heroic and villainous sides of things, nor does he seem to get particularly swept up in emotion (To a point where people were legitimately getting mad at him for it...), so I'm most interested in seeing his take on Endwalker.

[Brinne]

It seems a little odd to point to "what is popular" and "what sells" as indicating what decisions the devs should make, in a discussion thread revolving around criticism of Endwalker, a wildly successful and popular expansion by all metrics. And often specifically criticizing the character of Venat, who is also incredibly popular and well-loved. Meanwhile, we've also been discussing why the Ancients in Shadowbringers were so narratively successful - by going against the grain of established tropes. So I'd like to think most of the thread can agree that more than "target audience" and "what sells" should be in consideration when making storytelling and setting choices.

[CrownySuccubus]

T
FF players are often interested in far eastern locations, myself included. I have expressed multiple times that I would like to revisit the ones in FFXIV again someday, but 7.0 isn't the time to do it. A return to a traditional Heavensward style expansion is what many want to see in 7.0. In any case one look at the numbers of Elden Ring's sales shows you that people worldwide are largely interested in worlds like the one it created, and if given the choice I will gladly spend my time there than the New World, especially with the state of the current main cast.

You will have a difficult time convincing me to play a game with Alphinaud once again mediating tribal conflicts in the New World or Australia while G'raha Tia eats the latest cuisine that most of the budget went into, and the others just being there barely contributing anything of value.

Elden Ring is a highly-polished, well-made game in a number of ways. That's not a very good example.

Also, unless there's a poll or something, I don't think anybody here is qualified to talk about what the "majority" of gamers want. Hell, it's not even like anybody is saying that the game needs to exclusively take place in some non-European setting. They can easily introduce some new European/Industrial-like setting alongside brand new locales set in places they've been hinting at for years. I don't see ANY good reason that players should need to wait another four years until 8.0 or later to travel to more exotic locations.

[aveyond-dreams]

Elden Ring is a highly-polished, well-made game in a number of ways. That's not a very good example.

If highly polished and well made games are not something that FFXIV should draw from, then what else is there? WoW?

Also, unless there's a poll or something, I don't think anybody here is qualified to talk about what the "majority" of gamers want. Hell, it's not even like anybody is saying that the game needs to exclusively take place in some non-European setting. They can easily introduce some new European/Industrial-like setting alongside brand new locales set in places they've been hinting at for years. I don't see ANY good reason that players should need to wait another four years until 8.0 or later to travel to more exotic locations.

Sounds great, I am more than happy to allow you to visit these "exotic locations" with Alphinaud et co. while I play FFXVI and Forspoken. Of course I would rather not abandon the game I've played since day 1 of its launch 8 years ago, but if there's no Garlean Empire, no castles, no Ascians, no Gods...why should I stay?

I'd rather not be preached to about more nebulous morals in some "exotic location" lifted from a real world geographic area that I just don't have any interest in. I'll gladly chase my castles in the sky somewhere else if that's the case.