[Sage]: Feedback and Suggestions after 3 Months

[Liam_Harper]

Wouldn't a dps neutral (660 potency or so) Toxicon create a situation where you always bank 3 charges for your 2 min burst window?

I agree the current form of Toxicon really isn't great, but it feels like we're looking at this backwards and trying to create a mixed up version of the WHM Lily system with Toxicon as a smaller Misery. Misery is by far the most problematic ability in the WHM toolkit and restricts the class design a lot, so I'd rather keep well away from anything resembling it. There's so many things WHM can't have or ideas that won't work because of Misery.

But basically the ideas seem to be "We need dps neutral toxicon so we GCD heal more and have variety but since there's very little to heal lets make more of our heals GCD so we need to turn to GCD's more but that would feel bad so let's add Toxicon stacks to them but we don't want to encourage GCD heal spam so lets add cooldowns to them" ...which is messy and a series of bandaids on bandaids when the real issue is there's nothing to heal. We need more to heal in encounters.

Sage is already the healer that encourages using your toolkit to heal. It has a wide range of oGCD's that feel good and unlike SCH there's no dps tax on any of them. E Diag every 30 sec won't make it fun. I'd look at reworking Toxicon into something else entirely, rather than clinging to SE's concept of "button to press for using E Diag".

[ty_taurus]

Wouldn't a dps neutral (660 potency or so) Toxicon create a situation where you always bank 3 charges for your 2 min burst window?

I agree the current form of Toxicon really isn't great, but it feels like we're looking at this backwards and trying to create a mixed up version of the WHM Lily system with Toxicon as a smaller Misery. Misery is by far the most problematic ability in the WHM toolkit and restricts the class design a lot, so I'd rather keep well away from anything resembling it. There's so many things WHM can't have or ideas that won't work because of Misery.

But basically the ideas seem to be "We need dps neutral toxicon so we GCD heal more and have variety but since there's very little to heal lets make more of our heals GCD so we need to turn to GCD's more but that would feel bad so let's add Toxicon stacks to them but we don't want to encourage GCD heal spam so lets add cooldowns to them" ...which is messy and a series of bandaids on bandaids when the real issue is there's nothing to heal. We need more to heal in encounters.

Sage is already the healer that encourages using your toolkit to heal. It has a wide range of oGCD's that feel good and unlike SCH there's no dps tax on any of them. E Diag every 30 sec won't make it fun. I'd look at reworking Toxicon into something else entirely, rather than clinging to SE's concept of "button to press for using E Diag".

My original post has a few things that aren't entirely necessary, or aren't the correct way to go about adjusting some of the things, however, what I recommended in order to counter a DPS neutral Toxikon is just giving it a cooldown. You can't burn 3 Addersting during a buff window if the cooldown is 30 seconds. Additionally, I was also suggesting reorganizing a tool or two to be GCDs that also grant Addersting, such as Physis II. This also gives us the ability to give it a Eukrasia form and further take advantage of Eukrasia, which currently is not really taking advantage of the potential that it has. That might not be exactly the move to go with, but having more to work with on the GCD that can generate Addersting at intervals also lessens the need to just use E. Diagnosis every 30 seconds.

In practice, what you'd get would be more decision-making with your tools because the goal is to use them as efficiently as possible. You don't just want to cap out on Addersting immediately, but try and maintain 1 stack and look for opportunities to generate more without necessarily feeling the need to use them if they aren't necessary.

[WaxSw]

1. Normally [...].

Rhizomata to generate [...]

2.
We could convert [...].

5. SGE continuation suggestion

1-I agree toxicon has to be a dps neutral, AT LEAST. With resources like toxicon that are not time gated but resource gated a smart designer can afford to put dps gains there without breaking the flow because you hardly lose potential uses by delaying its usage, thats why toxicon would be a great conditional dps gain, because it can be delayed, thus not conflicting with the healing needs of the encounter and allows for gameplay optimizations rather than just movement.

The problem with your idea of the cd gated toxicon as I said is that for AoE you would not avoid that issue of being a gain which matters in normal mode and ultimates (all of the have some multi target phase) and there it would be a restrictive "press on cd or take the dps loss" cd, would cripple sage long distance movement capabilities (which matters in P3s nados for example) and the double weaving potential of the job would suffer.

About Rhizomata, its true we want to do different things than Dosis, but before anything those actions have to be meaningul. Rhizomata on the GCD would not make any sense because its a straight up worse version of a gcd heal, if you want that addersting why bother with that when you can simply use Eukrasian Diagnosis and get the addersting+heal?

2-The idea of Sage is dpsing while healing, giving more tools a gcd would only make the job feel worse, kardia less impactful and the job less flexible. It would also create problems with toxicon as the majority of its uses would be to compensate for the loses those tools create and since it would have a cooldown basically those gcd heals would held sage's long range mobility tool hostage.

5-With the combo the main problem imo is how it lacks any flexibility, it shares a problem with dissipation in how it locks Sch out of healing resources but in a much augmented way, in Dissipation's case the 180s cd is long enough that a small drift may not cause a lost of potential uses, at the same time it doesn't completely lock the Sch of free healing thanks to the use of recitation or protraction, the combo on the other hand with a 60s cd is more likely to see potential loses if it drifts due to healing needs and in the way you described it it would completely lock Sage out of GCD and oGCD ways of healing

If it generates both then it turns into a DPS button you use on CD rather than stay a backup Addersgall which creates a similar issue that Aetherflow is

The real issue with aetherflow its not the button but how Energy drain predates its heals, adding 100 to the oportunity cost of any aetherflow action, Rhizomata being an ogcd would be mainly used for the dps gain (as there is not much to heal now and the extra addersgall is not that useful even in savage) but would not share the same problems since addersting and addersgall are not attached to each other.

[AnotherPerson]

My original post has a few things that aren't entirely necessary, or aren't the correct way to go about adjusting some of the things, however, what I recommended in order to counter a DPS neutral Toxikon is just giving it a cooldown. You can't burn 3 Addersting during a buff window if the cooldown is 30 seconds. Additionally, I was also suggesting reorganizing a tool or two to be GCDs that also grant Addersting, such as Physis II. This also gives us the ability to give it a Eukrasia form and further take advantage of Eukrasia, which currently is not really taking advantage of the potential that it has. That might not be exactly the move to go with, but having more to work with on the GCD that can generate Addersting at intervals also lessens the need to just use E. Diagnosis every 30 seconds.

In practice, what you'd get would be more decision-making with your tools because the goal is to use them as efficiently as possible. You don't just want to cap out on Addersting immediately, but try and maintain 1 stack and look for opportunities to generate more without necessarily feeling the need to use them if they aren't necessary.

But what would you do with the remaining addersting though if Toxikon has a 30 sec cd? The current implementation allows a lot more flexibility in double weaving and giving mobility to SGE. What if you want to bank on that extra mobility for hard movement? Putting a hard 30 sec limit inhibits a lot of flexibility imo as generating extra addersting stacks doesn't change the fact that you wouldn't be necessarily be able to use them all when you want to.

I don't think it's a problem to have Eukrasian Diagnosis generate Toxikon and that this specific interaction is not DPS Neutral at 660 potency as long as Toxikon's potency is greater than Dosis (350+ potency) and there are frequent ways to generate Addersting that doesn't directly compete with Dosis.

[ty_taurus]

But what would you do with the remaining addersting though if Toxikon has a 30 sec cd? The current implementation allows a lot more flexibility in double weaving and giving mobility to SGE. What if you want to bank on that extra mobility for hard movement? Putting a hard 30 sec limit inhibits a lot of flexibility imo as generating extra addersting stacks doesn't change the fact that you wouldn't be necessarily be able to use them all when you want to.

What do you do the remaining Toxikon charges once its on cooldown? ...Use them when they come off cooldown. You don't have to generate Addersting within every 30 second window.

If you know you've got a heavy movement segment in a fight, then what you should do is prepare yourself to have no Addersting going into that segment, then using E. Diagnosis as your movement tool, then burn through your Toxikon uses over the next 90 seconds rather than generating Addersting as needed. That's 4 GCDs you can squeeze from this system, plus a potential E. Dosis and/or Phlegma (maybe 2 in very rare circumstances if you've been saving the first). All fights in this game are heavily scripted, so once you start getting familiar with the fight, then you should have no problem preparing your resources in advance and offers an aspect of skill ceiling that will make your life easier when a lot of movement is necessary.

I don't think it's a problem to have Eukrasian Diagnosis generate Toxikon and that this specific interaction is not DPS Neutral at 660 potency as long as Toxikon's potency is greater than Dosis (350+ potency) and there are frequent ways to generate Addersting that doesn't directly compete with Dosis.

Well it is a problem.

Fire burns. The earth is round. humans require oxygen to live. Toxikon as a DPS loss is bad game design.

[AnotherPerson]

What do you do the remaining Toxikon charges once its on cooldown? ...Use them when they come off cooldown. You don't have to generate Addersting within every 30 second window.

If you know you've got a heavy movement segment in a fight, then what you should do is prepare yourself to have no Addersting going into that segment, then using E. Diagnosis as your movement tool, then burn through your Toxikon uses over the next 90 seconds rather than generating Addersting as needed. That's 4 GCDs you can squeeze from this system, plus a potential E. Dosis and/or Phlegma (maybe 2 in very rare circumstances if you've been saving the first). All fights in this game are heavily scripted, so once you start getting familiar with the fight, then you should have no problem preparing your resources in advance and offers an aspect of skill ceiling that will make your life easier when a lot of movement is necessary.

Did I misunderstand something? I thought you meant that Toxikon can only be used once every 30 seconds even if you have addersting, so there's no point in using E. Diagnosis consistently as you can't dump all your Toxikon stacks anyway in a small window when you need them with the cooldown attached. You can't really use Eukrasian Diagnosis consistently to generate addersting or movement either in that regard as it has to break the shield or else it incurs a DPS loss, and generally autos don't hurt enough to instantly pop it (especially if it critical hits). I don't really see Eukrasian Diagnosis as good for a weaving tool as freely being able to use multiple Toxikon charges either as you can't double weave with Eukrasian Diagnosis.

Fights are scripted, but people are not. The issue I'm having with your design of Toxikon isn't the scripted fight with optimization. It's the issue in where things go bad that Toxikon here doesn't have as much flexibility to use multiple double weaves if there's a 30 sec cd between uses in that sense. It feels more punishing to use Eukrasian Diagnosis here as you can't even access Toxikon whenever you want to with the 30 sec cd lockout. Simply put, it feels too statically locked if SGE generate excess addersting stacks with no way of properly spending them.

Well it is a problem.

Fire burns. The earth is round. humans require oxygen to live. Toxikon as a DPS loss is bad game design.

See, this is where our opinions differ. I see Toxikon can be a DPS gain if you use it normally and have sources that generate addersting without directly fighting for Dosis with some potency increases to it. Doing this allows flexibility in the skill while keeping some ceiling for optimization and a mini burst window.

I don't see it's a good design to have Toxikon be doubled the potency of Dosis to incentivize spamming Eukrasian Diagnosis to gain addersting just to make it DPS Neutral. Doubly so if there's a cooldown attached so now there's multiple ways to never finish spending your gauge.

[ty_taurus]

Did I misunderstand something? I thought you meant that Toxikon can only be used once every 30 seconds even if you have addersting, so there's no point in using E. Diagnosis consistently as you can't dump all your Toxikon stacks anyway in a small window when you need them with the cooldown attached. You can't really use Eukrasian Diagnosis consistently to generate addersting or movement either in that regard as it has to break the shield or else it incurs a DPS loss, and generally autos don't hurt enough to instantly pop it (especially if it critical hits). I don't really see Eukrasian Diagnosis as good for a weaving tool as freely being able to use multiple Toxikon charges either as you can't double weave with Eukrasian Diagnosis.

Fights are scripted, but people are not. The issue I'm having with your design of Toxikon isn't the scripted fight with optimization. It's the issue in where things go bad that Toxikon here doesn't have as much flexibility to use multiple double weaves if there's a 30 sec cd between uses in that sense. It feels more punishing to use Eukrasian Diagnosis here as you can't even access Toxikon whenever you want to with the 30 sec cd lockout. Simply put, it feels too statically locked if SGE generate excess addersting stacks with no way of properly spending them.

I think you're going off the assumption that your excess Addersting fades over time? I'm really confused about where the issue is because sure, if you use E. Diagnosis twice and generate 2 Addersting within 30 seconds, then you can only use one of them right then, but you'll be able to use the other one after the cooldown finishes. That extra Addersting isn't going away unless you're overcapping on stacks, but there's no reason you should be overcapping.

See, this is where our opinions differ. I see Toxikon can be a DPS gain if you use it normally and have sources that generate addersting without directly fighting for Dosis with some potency increases to it. Doing this allows flexibility in the skill while keeping some ceiling for optimization and a mini burst window.

I don't see it's a good design to have Toxikon be doubled the potency of Dosis to incentivize spamming Eukrasian Diagnosis to gain addersting just to make it DPS Neutral. Doubly so if there's a cooldown attached so now there's multiple ways to never finish spending your gauge.

The whole point of the cooldown is to deincentivize spamming E. Diagnosis though, as well as deincentivize storing and dumping during buff windows. You can use it a limited number of times in quick succession for future DPS gains at timed intervals, but since there's no pressure to spam the action, you have time to find the right moments to use it. There's absolutely no positive value to making a partial DPS refund when you can instead make a full refund but create some restrictions so that it's not just a free-for-all. Look at the lilies. Look at Ruin II. Do you feel that either of those are in any way satisfying tools as they currently are?

I feel like it's a bit odd to be worried about the mobility aspect of Toxikon if it were given a cooldown but also be in favor or DPS loss mobility tools, because that's not rewarding you for managing your resources effectively. You are still punished for having to move, just punished marginally less. Yay.

[AnotherPerson]

I think you're going off the assumption that your excess Addersting fades over time? I'm really confused about where the issue is because sure, if you use E. Diagnosis twice and generate 2 Addersting within 30 seconds, then you can only use one of them right then, but you'll be able to use the other one after the cooldown finishes. That extra Addersting isn't going away unless you're overcapping on stacks, but there's no reason you should be overcapping.

It's possible I'm misunderstanding this.. but The problem with having a 30 second cooldown being an issue is mainly also caused by the way you go about gaining the DPS-neutral effect of Toxikon II. Eukrasian Diagnosis doesn't instantly generate addersting, only when the shield breaks. This creates a very big time-delay if there will be future skills that expend addersting - which limits the development of addersting skills. If Physis II and Rhizomata is also on the GCD, but generate addersting, this no longer makes it a flexible healing skill since they'll be used on cd for your other burst addersting skills to align with the cooldown. Assuming Physis II and Rhizomata has a lower cd to compensate for this fact and to be used as primarily a healing tool, it also means you'll start generating more addersting overtime, which doesn't make Eukrasian Diagnosis as a mobility tool for holding onto in case you need to double weave as you'll naturally start overcapping. Toxikon II would simply not be as flexible to use as a DPS-neutral tool or holding it for a double weave window since the cooldown will be naturally delayed while your other skills that work on generating addersting won't be, so you're always going to spend the Toxikon II on cd or you'll run into overcapping issues on addersting if you intend on using Eukrasian Diagnosis as your mobility tool.

Likewise, for an unplanned eventuality, you lose the freedom to reserve your Toxikon II stacks by needing to heal more and are required to spend your Physis II (ergo generate more addersting stacks) unless you plan on delaying the skills that generate addersting to prevent overcap, which just means you naturally lose addersting over the course of a fight (thereby no longer making your GCD skills DPS Neutral) unless Eukrasian Diagnosis is the only way to generate addersting. This is what I mean by loss of flexibility.


If E. Diagnosis is the only skill that can allow you to gain addersting stacks, but designed in a way that also decentivizes the use of E. Diagnosis, it means you'd use up to 2-3 per min if you're using it on cd for efficiency, or less if you plan on reserving stacks for double weaving. Possibly more if you want to spend it on other addersting skills in the future. However, there's still the big time lag delay between when your shield is applied and when the shield breaks. Not to mention, Eukrasian Diagnosis can crit and thereby extending the time it takes for the shield to pop. That's not so good if you decide to place an addersting DPS rotation.

Also, by starting to spam E. Diagnosis a lot more than usual to generate addersting for all addersting skills, Kardia is starting to sound more clunky down the line with Kardia losing more and more mileage per minute to accomodate for those changes rather then synergizing and meshing well with the toolkit. It's not a big problem, but there's certainly better ways to go about it.

The whole point of the cooldown is to deincentivize spamming E. Diagnosis though, as well as deincentivize storing and dumping during buff windows. You can use it a limited number of times in quick succession for future DPS gains at timed intervals, but since there's no pressure to spam the action, you have time to find the right moments to use it. There's absolutely no positive value to making a partial DPS refund when you can instead make a full refund but create some restrictions so that it's not just a free-for-all. Look at the lilies. Look at Ruin II. Do you feel that either of those are in any way satisfying tools as they currently are?

I feel like it's a bit odd to be worried about the mobility aspect of Toxikon if it were given a cooldown but also be in favor or DPS loss mobility tools, because that's not rewarding you for managing your resources effectively. You are still punished for having to move, just punished marginally less. Yay.

For the third time, if there were additional ways to generate addersting frequently outside of simply using Eukrasian Diagnosis or any skill that specifically shares our main GCD DPS skill (Dosis), then there would no longer be an issue with requiring Toxikon to be double the potency to make GCD healing DPS Neutral. Bumping up the potency to Toxikon higher than Dosis will already make it a DPS gain over Dosis as long as you can get addersting consistently enough outside of hardcasting GCD skills like Eukrasian Diagnosis. At the same time, it becomes a mobility tool and a double weaving tool on high enough demand, but still requires some optimization as you can't spam it 24/7.

DPS Neutral DPS skills is only major a problem with healing for WHM because WHM relies on GCD healing with lilies and lacks oGCD healing tools in general compared to the other 3 healers.

However, SCH, AST, and SGE does not have this issue where they are forced to depend on GCD healing.
SCH suffers from Ruin II not being a proper mobility tool and a double-weaving tool as it's only a partial DPS-refund, which has to be addressed, but that's for making it easier to chain their oGCD abilities together because the only time SCH needs to use Ruin II is to use multiple healing abilities in quick succession and to move. They don't need to pay the tax to use Ruin II otherwise because their main skill is already giving them free weave slots. It doesn't need Succor or Adloquium to be DPS Neutral. It's not a GCD-focused healer like WHM.

This also applies to SGE. The current Toxikon is already DPS Neutral under the assumption you can gain addersting outside of combat. Not being able to gain addersting during combat is the main issue of Toxikon currently from stopping it to be DPS Neutral. Bumping the potency up over Dosis and giving more ways to gain addersting during combat outside of Eukrasian Diagnosis completely eliminates the issue needing DPS Neutral entirely as it introduces alternate sources of gaining addersting over the course of the encounter without fighting for Dosis on the GCD.

SGE is predominately a healer that relies on their oGCD healing abilities. Having GCD healing is more of a fall-back plan for SGE rather than a requirement to use doesn't make Toxikon inherently more rewarding because all you are doing is playing catchup and giving more healing to a job that doesn't lack healing tools. A big reason why healing is unrewarding is because there is a huge disparity between not needing to heal due to a lack of damage. The current Toxikon is good for its niche, but it's too niche in its usage since there's nothing else in the toolkit other than Dosis and Phlegma. That's the main issue of Toxikon and healers in general. Forcing E. Diagnosis to heal doesn't negate healing when you don't need to as well.

Sorry if I wasn't clarifying enough. When I'm saying Toxikon, I'm referring to Toxikon II being already DPS Neutral. Toxikon I itself is problematic and needs a buff to its potency to be at DPS Neutral or slightly above as it's currently only beneficial at 2 targets, outside of paying DPS-tax to use.

[ty_taurus]

Apologies for not replying with quote, I'm being a little lazy. Also, for the record, when I say "Toxikon" I really just mean whichever version you're used based on content, so sorry if that made anything confusing. At level 90, this means Toxikon II.

The issue with needing E. Diagnosis to break for Addersting really only exists for your opener when needing 2 of them to use both Toxikon and SGE Continuation. You can very easily get Addersting very quickly by putting E. Diagnosis on the main tank prepull since autos in any fights where a perfect opener matters have bosses that auto hard enough to pop the barrier quickly, in which case using one alternative source for your opener does exist. It also pops very quickly everywhere else, even in dungeons, when placed on the main tank. Once you get passed that point, the idea is that you'll prepare your Addersting ahead of time using E. Diagnosis rather than only using it as the cooldown is coming off. How much you'll prep your Addersting will depend largely on the fight. P3S, for example, has a few movement-heavy phases where you will want to have an empty tank to afford the E. Diagnosis uses that will work in favor of your mobility. Beyond your SGE Continuation, though, you really don't need to use Toxikon on cooldown outside of burst windows since it's net neutral. The only time where it becomes a problem is if you end the fight before spending all your Addersting because it means the uses of E. Diagnosis or other gainers ultimately did result in a loss. I'm sure there could be anecdotes about someone who hit enrage at 0.1% where that could've been avoided through more apt use of Toxikon, but that would be an incredibly rare occurrence, and if you cleared the fight, then you still cleared the fight.

That stays true for other GCD gainers as well since it's DPS neutral. So long as you're able to generate some of your Addersting from E. Diagnosis, which isn't hard to do when you don't have the pressure to do it constantly, then you don't need to use those gainers on cooldown. You only are pressured to if you've neglected to gain a single Addersting from E. Diagnosis use once per SGE Continuation timer. Even if that ended up being 60 seconds, is it really that much to ask that someone use E. Diagnosis once a minute or less based on coincidental generation used from your other sources?

This would actually make how many Addersting you're holding onto and what's ideal for any given point in a fight very fluid, which would be very unique to any job in FFXIV, and not a bad thing either. And because it's all net neutral for Toxikon, someone who chooses not to generate or use it throughout a fight outside of maybe getting it through your other methods like Physis II is only really going to lose a small amount of DPS exclusively from ignoring burst windows which is something people already do all the time, even in Savage. The only real demand to use it stems from the SGE continuation concept. Toxikon is more about offering skilled players a way to express mastery without actually performing that much higher than someone who isn't, but you'd be a more effective healer for doing so.

And sure, the healing requirements of FFXIV are rock bottom, but making situational use of E. Diagnosis a good strategy rather than an objectively terrible one 99% of the time is something I'd argue works well in favor of giving SGE more to do with their GCD--something that is very largely a choice.

[AnotherPerson]

I can't agree with you there. The problem is not "Giving something to do on the GCD". The problem is "DPS GCD options are sorely lacking" because damage isn't always prevalent in all content, and the alternative is to just heal more - which is no alternative at all.

The issue with needing E. Diagnosis to break for Addersting really only exists for your opener when needing 2 of them to use both Toxikon and SGE Continuation. You can very easily get Addersting very quickly by putting E. Diagnosis on the main tank prepull since autos in any fights where a perfect opener matters have bosses that auto hard enough to pop the barrier quickly, in which case using one alternative source for your opener does exist.

This is something I take offense to and immediately raises red flags. I don't want healers to only be fun and be tuned "where a perfect opener matters have bosses that auto hard enough to pop the barrier quickly," because that suddenly neglects the fact that healers also do all the story content, duty roulette, and solo instances in the game. Healers should be fun in all content - and that means making a DPS toolkit that fits the paradigm of actually using it for all content, not just for high-end where damage is higher.

It also pops very quickly everywhere else, even in dungeons, when placed on the main tank. Once you get passed that point, the idea is that you'll prepare your Addersting ahead of time using E. Diagnosis rather than only using it as the cooldown is coming off. How much you'll prep your Addersting will depend largely on the fight. P3S, for example, has a few movement-heavy phases where you will want to have an empty tank to afford the E. Diagnosis uses that will work in favor of your mobility. Beyond your SGE Continuation, though, you really don't need to use Toxikon on cooldown outside of burst windows since it's net neutral. The only time where it becomes a problem is if you end the fight before spending all your Addersting because it means the uses of E. Diagnosis or other gainers ultimately did result in a loss. I'm sure there could be anecdotes about someone who hit enrage at 0.1% where that could've been avoided through more apt use of Toxikon, but that would be an incredibly rare occurrence, and if you cleared the fight, then you still cleared the fight.

Here's the biggest kicker I got so far with your SGE design. Currently, SGE rarely needs to GCD heal, if any, in normal content once the content has been out for a while. The ways I found to optimize my aoe in dungeons is to place 4 Eukrasian Diagnosis pre-pull. A good team can pop all 4 shields in a big pull, and if I'm unlucky, then only 2 pops (Eukrasian Dosis pulls mobs to sge which pops the Eukrasian shield due to Kardion aggro, but sge is next to the tank, so tank immediately grabs aggro back with aoe as a result of Icarus letting the sge stay close by, resulting in the second addersting). To be utterly honest, the amount of times I use addersting in a normal dungeon is higher than what you proposed because SGE continuation combo has a 90 sec cd whereas the Toxikon has a 30 sec cd. However, interestingly enough, Krasis and Physis II generally comes back up before the next big pull, or are slightly under cooldown (which means it's always 55 to 65 seconds between pulls, and that has been very consistent in all dungeons I've done so far). This means you can only use SGE's continuation combo every other wall to wall pull, then overcap on Toxikon as a result. The SGE continuation combo also won't align perfectly in dungeon bosses as a result of this. Meanwhile, the current Toxikon allows me to spend 2 or more GCDs consistently in every big pull, which enables me to get more uses of addersting by the end of the dungeon compared to your current implementation. It gets even better if I need to move to the next big pack as I can just empty out my Toxikon stacks while running to the next big pull after using Eukrasian Dosis to tag all the enemies, thus keeping my GCD always rolling. With all that in mind, it feels like your SGE suggestion for DPS options is actually a downgrade unless it's strictly for bossing and trials.

That stays true for other GCD gainers as well since it's DPS neutral. So long as you're able to generate some of your Addersting from E. Diagnosis, which isn't hard to do when you don't have the pressure to do it constantly, then you don't need to use those gainers on cooldown. You only are pressured to if you've neglected to gain a single Addersting from E. Diagnosis use once per SGE Continuation timer. Even if that ended up being 60 seconds, is it really that much to ask that someone use E. Diagnosis once a minute or less based on coincidental generation used from your other sources?

Bro, in your first post, you literally listed: Physis II, Pepsis, Holos, Rhizomata going into the GCD. Pepsis is supposed to work with Eukrasian Prognosis or it becomes a DPS loss anyway, so now you have 6 skills including Eukrasian Diagnosis. I took the liberty to remove Holos, but even then, that's still 5 GCD skills that are strictly related to healing. 170*5 = 850. That's not a small amount of Kardia healing potency, especially if you're using that under Soteria. That's nearly the levels of Dissipation Fairy's embrace levels of bad, except Dissipation is a 30 second lockout per 180 seconds and all these skills are definitely UNDER 180 seconds cd. Granted, you don't have to use all of them at once, but if you need that healing for whatever reason (everyone messing up and getting some vuln stacks), not only are you using them to save the party, you're going to be constantly overcapping addersting as a result of the Toxikon 30 second cooldown lockout. Hard pass from me.

GCD-heal gameplay works for WHM and really just WHM with the introduction of Afflatus Spells and Afflatus Misery, as well as its support healing abilities like Temperance (scales off spells), Plenary Indulgence (scales off aoe spells), and asylum (scales off all abilities, but also can boost healing spells). The toolkit is naturally designed to heal with spells. It would only make sense for it to do so and double down by making spells DPS-Neutral or DPS-Positive to heal in that regard.

However, GCD-heal by DPS gameplay works for SGE only because SGE has Kardia and Soteria, as well as having Pneuma, Phlegma, Dosis, Dykrasia, Toxikon and Eukrasian Dosis to activate Kardion. It's still a low number and incomplete like WHM, but the starting foundation can be developed with a clear vision as the heals are all oGCD based otherwise.

Eukrasian Diagnosis doesn't introduce any new elements into this, nor does Eukrasian Prognosis, Pepsis + Physis II + Rhizomata if they become on the GCD. In fact, Pepsis being the only skill that deletes barriers to grant addersting based on the number of barriers eaten actually just makes this skill overcap Toxikon easily since you just fill up and can't spend them all with that 30 second cooldown. If it only grants one as long as it eats a barrier, it's a complete DPS loss of a skill as it now takes 2 GCDs to grant 1 addersting. It just fully screams of backward design to me by trying to convert SGE to WHM rather than make SGE as SGE.

Making DPS Neutral-healing in hindsight is good, but it really makes no sense to give it on healers who are heavily oGCD focused and doesn't want to use GCD healing. And this is a hill I will die on.
Eukrasian Diagnosis and Eukrasian Prognosis can definitely get some support, but dammit, changing the job from GCD heal by DPSing to GCD heal TO DPS is the wrong direction for SGE to develop in.