[Sage]: Feedback and Suggestions after 3 Months

[rewd]

Why it has to be a cheap copy paste of SCH’s??

Because this is a significant part of SGE's "identity".

[Recon1o6]

If I had to offer some sage things

1. Rhizomata should absolutely generate an addersting, 3 when out of combat. I said this before launch and I will say it again until it happens
2. I would suggest doubling Pneuma's healing power or halving its cooldown and changing Zoe to be a buff that increases mp regen rate and makes Dosis instant cast for its duration. For a self buffing healer its sure got a lack of offensive buffs
3. Like others said Eukrasia dykrasia or phelegma
4. I would offer a combo of two earlier suggestions- making Toxikon 1 and 2 separate. 1 can remain as is, a mobility tool but its potency doubled to 2x dosis. Make Toxikon 2 a slight dps gain but cost 2 addersting and put it on a 0s cooldown
5. Add more addersting generators. Ideally one that rewards dps, and another more consistent one that rewards healing.
6. Double the strength of pepsis and diagnosis

Ideally Sage will get a decent rotation with more toxikon 1 and 2, eukrasia dykrasia as an aoe dot and if possible more than 1 pneuma every 2 minutes.

[ty_taurus]

So having read through a lot of people's comments and I do think there are good points here, so I want to update my thoughts on SGE:

1. Normally, I'd say that I'm fairly open-minded and agreeable on design topics. I am not the one who has the vision, and others can very well have better ideas or perspectives than I do. I have the humility and humbleness to see when others have made good points. That said, there is one area where I will become an unreasonable, bigoted tyrant: Toxikon. Toxikon must be DPS neutral and this is not negotiable. No, it is not okay just being a mobility tool. This makes it a disappointingly flaccid mechanic that is nothing more than a convenient afterthought and nothing else. If it's DPS neutral, it allows for so much better opportunities for SGE to grow. In this particular topic, I am right. That is not an opinion, it is gospel truth. Yes, this is a egregious and arrogant statement, but sometimes there are hills worth dying on.

To combat the issue of mass healing in order to pump out Toxikon II, we can just give the spell a cooldown of 20 or 30 seconds. This means you are advantaged for using some GCD healing, but spamming it does not work.

In order for Rhizomata to generate Addersting in this example, it must be moved to the GCD or it becomes a button you always use on cooldown and we end up in the SCH dilemma where Addersgall generation will go to waste in casual content. But I was under the interpretation that we were all looking for more things to do on the GCD instead of Dosis, so I'm surprised more people wouldn't be on board with that.

2. People make great points on Holos. It's hard to reap the benefits of the mitigation when a very prominent heal is attached, and I'd almost believe that thought was why it changed from the media tour and wasn't just convenient circumstance. Having said that, I do feel like not just SGE, but all healers would benefit by consolidating on healing buttons in some fashion. This game doesn't have enough damage to warrant the shear number of healing tools we have, and by giving things charges or adjusting how things work, we could make the tools we have feel more compelling to take advantage of. For example:'

We could convert more OGCD healing buttons into GCD heals which would let Eukrasia augment them. This would both make Eukrasia a more active tool for SGE gameplay and also create choice in the tools you use. We could accomplish this as well by making those tools generate 1 Addersting to compensate for the loss of Dosis, a feature that only works if Toxikon is DPS neutral, I might add. Perhaps instead of Pneuma, Physis II Could be moved to the GCD with 2 charges and have Eukrasia allow you to choose between mitigation or increased HP recovered along with getting 1 Addersting. Mitigation would be the more frequently used choice, but I also can think of several situations where the added HP recovered is more advantageous as well, like when mechanics forcibly drop the party to 1 HP. That would perhaps be a better way to merge Holos into other buttons, though I'm not married to any of these choices specifically.

4. "Eukrasia Dyskrasia" does indeed not make sense in terms of naming. For the sake of simplicity, I think it communicates the intent accurately for the purpose of discussion, but if put into practice we might need to retheme Dyskrasia.

5. In regards to whether or not the SGE continuation suggestion, there is the topic of it not lining up with party buffs. It's weird because I feel like 60 seconds is too frequent for SGE to be doing a continuation combo, but 120 seconds is too long also. I get why we've been streamlining party buffs more and more, but I was thinking about if having it intentionally not line up could have pros and not exclusively cons. I'd much rather it be 60 seconds than 120 though, so perhaps it could be less of a DPS gain on the shorter cooldown.

[AnotherPerson]

In order for Rhizomata to generate Addersting in this example, it must be moved to the GCD or it becomes a button you always use on cooldown and we end up in the SCH dilemma where Addersgall generation will go to waste in casual content. But I was under the interpretation that we were all looking for more things to do on the GCD instead of Dosis, so I'm surprised more people wouldn't be on board with that.

Because Kardia doesn't make sense if Rhizomata & more healing abilities goes on the GCD. We don't want the toolkit to fight itself. Creating healing depth only goes so far because there's never enough damage for all the amount of healing optimization to take place. It doesn't solve any issue with ... never using the healing skills to gain addersting because there's not enough healing required. Being forced to overheal to access your addersting feels even worse since then the healer is just... proactively wasting resources just to get a different GCD gameplay. It's basically what happens when you don't need healing as a WHM but you decide to throw away your lilies during combat.... It doesn't actually do anything to your engagement. It's not being more proactive to gameplay.

Plus, it makes the healing skill floor higher for sages if more abilities go on the GCD. This is also an accessibility issue - as now Physis II will have to fight a GCD for Eukrasian Prognosis. If you add Rhizomata in there as well, then one of your addergall healing ability no longer actually becomes oGCD heal - but is traded for on the GCD. The goal is to keep a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling, not shrink the skill ceiling by raising the skill floor.

[ty_taurus]

Because Kardia doesn't make sense if Rhizomata & more healing abilities goes on the GCD. We don't want the toolkit to fight itself. Creating healing depth only goes so far because there's never enough damage for all the amount of healing optimization to take place. It doesn't solve any issue with ... never using the healing skills to gain addersting because there's not enough healing required. Being forced to overheal to access your addersting feels even worse since then the healer is just... proactively wasting resources just to get a different GCD gameplay. It's basically what happens when you don't need healing as a WHM but you decide to throw away your lilies during combat.... It doesn't actually do anything to your engagement. It's not being more proactive to gameplay.

Plus, it makes the healing skill floor higher for sages if more abilities go on the GCD. This is also an accessibility issue - as now Physis II will have to fight a GCD for Eukrasian Prognosis. If you add Rhizomata in there as well, then one of your addergall healing ability no longer actually becomes oGCD heal - but is traded for on the GCD. The goal is to keep a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling, not shrink the skill ceiling by raising the skill floor.

In other words, it's best to have Rhizomata stay the same and not generate Addersting at all, is what you're saying. That's perfectly fine with me as I feel like it has a strong enough identity as-is.

[AnotherPerson]

In other words, it's best to have Rhizomata stay the same and not generate Addersting at all, is what you're saying. That's perfectly fine with me as I feel like it has a strong enough identity as-is.

I'm saying Rhizomata remains as an oGCD ability, but can generate both....

[ty_taurus]

I'm saying Rhizomata remains as an oGCD ability, but can generate both....

If it generates both then it turns into a DPS button you use on CD rather than stay a backup Addersgall which creates a similar issue that Aetherflow is in.

[AnotherPerson]

If it generates both then it turns into a DPS button you use on CD rather than stay a backup Addersgall which creates a similar issue that Aetherflow is in.

Shouldn't be an issue if addersting skills are mainly Eukrasian DoTs and if other sources also work towards generating addersting naturally (e.g.: applying Eukrasian Dosis grants 2 stacks of addercharge and 4 is required for addersting, addersgall generating some addercharge for addersting, Eukrasian Prognosis & Eukrasian Diagnosis generating addercharge). If need be, Dosis can be changed to generate addercharge every 3 casts Dosis. That way, even if you do have excess addersting beyond your addersting DoTs, Toxikon II is still the main purpose skill of being DPS neutral + for weaving for addersting, but doesn't make it a must to generate as it's not DPS positive.

[RinaShinomiya]

Because Kardia doesn't make sense if Rhizomata & more healing abilities goes on the GCD. We don't want the toolkit to fight itself. Creating healing depth only goes so far because there's never enough damage for all the amount of healing optimization to take place. It doesn't solve any issue with ... never using the healing skills to gain addersting because there's not enough healing required. Being forced to overheal to access your addersting feels even worse since then the healer is just... proactively wasting resources just to get a different GCD gameplay. It's basically what happens when you don't need healing as a WHM but you decide to throw away your lilies during combat.... It doesn't actually do anything to your engagement. It's not being more proactive to gameplay.

Plus, it makes the healing skill floor higher for sages if more abilities go on the GCD. This is also an accessibility issue - as now Physis II will have to fight a GCD for Eukrasian Prognosis. If you add Rhizomata in there as well, then one of your addergall healing ability no longer actually becomes oGCD heal - but is traded for on the GCD. The goal is to keep a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling, not shrink the skill ceiling by raising the skill floor.

I think you're really blowing the Kardia issue out of proportion. It's just 170 healing potency every 90s (persumably) and you yourself mention that there isn't enough damage to heal anyway. I'd hardly call it toolkit fighting itself.

[AnotherPerson]

I think you're really blowing the Kardia issue out of proportion. It's just 170 healing potency every 90s (persumably) and you yourself mention that there isn't enough damage to heal anyway. I'd hardly call it toolkit fighting itself.

It's more like, why would you make a skill like Kardia, then a skill like Soteria, but then start adding tools that doesn't make the toolkit work together? It's very counter intuitive to its gameplay. Not to mention, if SGE was supposed to heal by DPSing, but then gets skills on the GCD that heals rather than DPS to heal, then they're moving farther from what they're being designed as. It's basically pigeon-holing them into a design choice that doesn't mesh well with its identity in the long run, assuming we're still going to get new skills for another 2-3 expansions.

Also, I realize if that SGE really does go on the path of just naturally generating addersting, it might be better for Toxikon II to be a slight DPS gain like GNB's powder gauge rather than be DPS Neutral. We shouldn't want healers to simply be playing to reach DPS Neutral efficiency when playing optimally, but give beneficial rewards from managing their gauge well outside of simply healing. That should go with all healers - WHM, SCH, and AST included.

Would be nice if this vision actually came true for healers though.