World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[Kacho_Nacho]

But aren’t healer in final fantasy 14 even worse gameplay wise as the ones in wow ?. If you talk about changes that did kill healer then we should not forget final fantasy 14 healer design choices and as with wow they also ignore these voices and the same with a lot of other jobs. Like I give you the example lifeletter we’re healer player did ask if they could fights more heal challenging and the answer was “You can go play ultimate fights if you are bored”, like if they actually had a clue about healers then they know these fights we’re also done by a solo healer.

Wow greatest problem is that it doesn’t respect the time the player has and that they have no fluffing clue how too write good storylines.

Honestly, I feel WoW's Cataclysm healers had it worse than FFXIV's Endwalker healers. WoW's "brilliant" idea was to weaken healing spells and make the whole party responsible for the party's survival. Healers couldn't dps at all. They had to save their mana for healing.

Needless to say, this went over like a lead balloon. Instead of changing how they played, individuals would kick any healer who couldn't keep them alive. Within a month, every healer on my friends list had either left the game or had switched another role.

Meanwhile, FFXIV has the opposite idea. Healers hardly have to heal and much of our time is spent spamming one damage spell. It's boring and I agree, it is clear Square Enix doesn't understand why many players are unhappy with the current state of healers.

Furthermore, S.E. is either not listening to players or is seriously misunderstanding our input. You just have to look at dark knights and monks, two jobs which were fun when they were introduced but are now red hot messes to play.

[sharknado]

It's boring and I agree, it is clear Square Enix doesn't understand why many players are unhappy with the current state of healers.

You don't need your job stone, job quests, you can enter most instances with quite old gear and the gameplay may not depend on parses/combat analyzers so in case of 1/1/2 tank nor healer can have any heavy responsibility Trinity design needs a trinity but to be super friendly to any skill level they just made it "simple". And they now want FF franchise players that do not play FF14 due to it online nature to come in and play solo, with Trust and so on. Theoretically it's a much wider audience than for anything competitive.

[Ixon]

Furthermore, S.E. is either not listening to players or is seriously misunderstanding our input. You just have to look at dark knights and monks, two jobs which were fun when they were introduced but are now red hot messes to play.

As a HW DRK fan, I believe the explanation for those changes were due the devs specifically wanting to have the gap between the skill floor and skill ceiling as small as possible and also lowering the skill floor required to play those jobs even remotely well. People complain how hard you have to carry a bad DRK now, when it was WAY worse in HW due to the attention required to maintain your MP that was the key to both offensive and defensive abilities that also controlled your tank stance swapping(which cost MP for those who don't know). While many people, myself included, enjoyed the mechanics of it all, it's skill floor was buffed(or nerfed depending how you see it), so more casual players could adopt it and not be a complete disaster of a party member. Same thing applied to MNK.

Now if the devs main goal was to shrink the gap between skill floor and ceiling as much as possible, I believe they have achieved it in EW, but if I was speaking honestly I wish they would increase the ceiling by a tiny bit just so more hardcore and veteran players have more to do and more to optimize at a high end level gameplay.

[Kacho_Nacho]

You don't need your job stone, job quests, you can enter most instances with quite old gear and the gameplay may not depend on parses/combat analyzers so in case of 1/1/2 tank nor healer can have any heavy responsibility Trinity design needs a trinity but to be super friendly to any skill level they just made it "simple". And they now want FF franchise players that do not play FF14 due to it online nature to come in and play solo, with Trust and so on. Theoretically it's a much wider audience than for anything competitive.

Good point. But, I can't help but feel that in their quest to bring in that wider audience, SE is losing players who want more in their job's gameplay. There's got to be a middle road.

As a HW DRK fan, I believe the explanation for those changes were due the devs specifically wanting to have the gap between the skill floor and skill ceiling as small as possible and also lowering the skill floor required to play those jobs even remotely well. People complain how hard you have to carry a bad DRK now, when it was WAY worse in HW due to the attention required to maintain your MP that was the key to both offensive and defensive abilities that also controlled your tank stance swapping(which cost MP for those who don't know). While many people, myself included, enjoyed the mechanics of it all, it's skill floor was buffed(or nerfed depending how you see it), so more casual players could adopt it and not be a complete disaster of a party member. Same thing applied to MNK.

Now if the devs main goal was to shrink the gap between skill floor and ceiling as much as possible, I believe they have achieved it in EW, but if I was speaking honestly I wish they would increase the ceiling by a tiny bit just so more hardcore and veteran players have more to do and more to optimize at a high end level gameplay.

*emphasis mine*

Exactly. I am by no means a hardcore player but I do wish my favorite job hadn't been simplified into a glare mage. I want to feel rewarded for good play.

[Kolsykol]

Furthermore, S.E. is either not listening to players or is seriously misunderstanding our input. You just have to look at dark knights and monks, two jobs which were fun when they were introduced but are now red hot messes to play.

Imo MNK isn't a mess if we disregard the Dragon Kick spam rotation ( which should be nerfed imo, it's just stupid ).
I think overall it's rly good.

Reason why I quit playing it tho after having played MNK since ARR is because quite frankly outside of the new Master Gauge which was a good addition it just feels so insanely outdated.
The animations are so underwhelming and weak compared to others and don't really sell what MNK's are supposed to be they're too slow and unimpressive.
I was hoping for new combos updated to be more like Tifa in FF7R or something, I just couldn't deal with it anymore and it's the same loop as we've done since ARR.
Master Gauge just wasn't enough for me but I've also played it for so long that I probably have a different perspective.