World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

[Iyrnthota]

People mock WoW's peaks and falls between expansions, but FF14's drops are bigger, sometimes by 50%.

Such an odd note to end on.
"This is how FF14 has always been and that is why now, and only now, it is dying"

4/10 - didn't stick the landing.

[hynaku]

WoW died to me the very day I ever heard of it. Because I never once have played it or cared to ever play it. FFXIV has never died to me since I first did the beta for it.

[Renalt]

Comparing WoW to FFXIV is about as Apples to Oranges as it can get. I've played both and have enjoyed both.

I will say I will go to WoW before FFXIV if I get a huge itch for PvP that needs scratching.

Maybe I'll do a WoTLK Private server again. CHances are I'll be a Druid again because they can do everything.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

Skiros trying his hardest to be the Cassandra of ff14.

You'll see, one day! They'll all see!

Hunky is right, the cloudcuckoolander is always right in the end.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...landerWasRight

Comparing WoW to FFXIV is about as Apples to Oranges as it can get. I've played both and have enjoyed both.

I will say I will go to WoW before FFXIV if I get a huge itch for PvP that needs scratching.

Maybe I'll do a WoTLK Private server again. CHances are I'll be a Druid again because they can do everything.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

thingies

thingies bis

Excuse me, good sirs, why are you weird ? We are not talking about WoW's casual endgame, we're discussing FF's... And you're missing the point, especially because, well, that's not casual content. As it's been said, wow crafting is probably the most time consuming thing ever coded in that game, and getting all recipes means farming whole *ss reputations on several different alts to craft anything and everything, and everything else you're talking about is PvE. Easy, quick PvE, but PvE nonetheless.

What makes FFXIV appeal to the imvu/second life/deviantart/whatevs is not the roulettes, it's island sanctuary, housing, omnicrafting, gold saucer... those are the things that make people log in, and, since they already play the game, they put up with roulettes to help others, hence why most people don't play that well, they don't care a bit about PvE.

"But you need to do content to do housing, or glamours", nah, you just need gils, and you certainly don't need to do any PvE to make gils. You don't even need to log in to get gils, actually, but that's another issue. Same for glamours, everything except alliance raids can be farmed much more easily than in WoW, that has weekly locks for everything, and makes farming gear a mess.

Still, to the point, that makes FFXIV livelier, because as I said, those people that don't care about the PvE still do it because they're already logged on, so no, it won't be any downfall per se. What could be a downfall, however, would be listening to the forums, and actually do things to change that balance, may it be "cater too much for hardcore players" (midcores are covered by savage and the occasional "let's go to ultimate > owah, that was a hard first mechanic") by doing 3-4 ultimates an expansion, with less content for casual/midcores, or "cater too much for casual players", by giving only 1 ultimate (Hello Shadow "best expansion ever despite being one of the emptiest ones" bringers), removing deep dungeon, criterion, or whatever else they gave us recently.

I still don't like the relics farming being taken this lightly, but let's be honest, criterion is the "relic farm" equivalent, and it's better to have that as separate content that you can do or refuse to do depending on nothing but personal choice.

Edit : Ah, and another thing that will keep FFXIV rolling is actually modders : they might be dangerous criminals on the loose, they do play in both hardcore and casual content, and will keep playing the game out of nothing but love (irrationnal, maybe, but eh, whatever floats anyone's boats) for their characters, even if they don't actually like the current tier/have not much to do. So yeah, that's another thing WoW doesn't have.

[Jojoya]

opinions stated.

Why are you weird and not noticing the title of the thread? The discussion was started in an attempt to compare the two game so it's natural to talk about both.

What do you consider casual? What do you consider end game?

WoW's crafting was never time-consuming when I played (BC through Legion) outside of farming the Vanilla end game recipes and a few rare drop recipes from BC, Wrath, Cata, onward - There may have been reputation grinds gating access to some recipes (most of which no one cared about because gear from raiding was far superior again with the exception of ARR/BC) but I wouldn't have called them time consuming when it was 5 minutes to get the dailies done then you had the rest of the day to do other things. The actual crafting part of crafting was most definitely not time consuming. "Press the Create Button. Done."

Not certain why you bring up PvE as if it's something meaningless. No one is playing FFXIV because it has fantastic PvP. and Player versus Environment isn't limited to combat content.

[TheMightyMollusk]

WoW's dead? Why didn't anyone tell me? I would've made a cake.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Why are you weird and not noticing the title of the thread? The discussion was started in an attempt to compare the two game so it's natural to talk about both.

You weren't comparing anything, though, you were just stating what WoW has, not how it compares. But fair point, let's discuss.

What do you consider casual? What do you consider end game?

WoW's crafting was never time-consuming when I played (BC through Legion) outside of farming the Vanilla end game recipes and a few rare drop recipes from BC, Wrath, Cata, onward - There may have been reputation grinds gating access to some recipes (most of which no one cared about because gear from raiding was far superior again with the exception of ARR/BC) but I wouldn't have called them time consuming when it was 5 minutes to get the dailies done then you had the rest of the day to do other things. The actual crafting part of crafting was most definitely not time consuming. "Press the Create Button. Done."

In DF, for example, you get specialization points as a reward for weekly craft/gather quests, elite kills, dungeon clearing, etc. You don't need to have every last specialization mastered to get all recipes, but it's certainly quite a strain, if you just want to craft some things and be gone with it. For example, if you want every customization for your drakes, you need to get specialized in a specific category of calligraphy, and that takes a bit (not much, but eh) of farming. Which brings on the "it was 5 minutes to get the dailies done then you had the rest of the day" : that's not quick, then. If you could get a reputation to exalted in 4-5 hours, that would be quicker, to me. Instead, you have to take 5 minutes to do some random quest, every day, for 3-4 weeks. That's quicker in total time played, but if you miss a day, you can't catch up any other way than playing one more day and you will actually need a month of IRL time to get whatever your want. I'm not sure I convey what I mean properly, but my point is it's not accomodating to the user at all. Casuals are not people that play 30 minutes every day, they are people that play 30 minutes every day, OR people that play stress-free things for 8 hours. Catering to only one type of them is not catering to casuals. It's the same as for weekly locks, tbh, and that's why I don't like farming old WoW content much, despite playing a lot of it ever since DF (I've been an expansion-month/patch-week player from BFA)

Not certain why you bring up PvE as if it's something meaningless. No one is playing FFXIV because it has fantastic PvP. and Player versus Environment isn't limited to combat content.

No one is playing FFXIV for its PvP, but as I said, a lot of people are playing FFXIV for non PvE content. I can detail the list once more : island sanctuary, housing, gold saucer, crafting (which is another game in itself, opposite to wow, where you need to grind reputations, and that means do some sort of PvE), and more. None of those need you to kill any monster. Those are once more a specific type of casual players, but they do exist, and they are not a tiny minority. I'd estimate they are pretty much as important as midcore pve players, in terms of number.

So yeah, to answer your question of what I consider casual and endgame :

Casual is pretty much everything that you can do by yourself, that you can dive in for several hours at a time, or 5 minutes a day whenever you want. Basically, it's content that dropped in there, and are yours to do however you see fit.

Endgame is not "anti-casual", it's just "content that you can do once you're done with the main story". It refers to both casual and hardcore content. But hardcore, however, requires the player to have a group, and thus, a planning, some sort of rigor, and so on.

[Renalt]

WoW's dead? Why didn't anyone tell me? I would've made a cake.

I say make a cake anyway...and if feeling neighborly you could mail me a slice.

I'm sure it'll still be good when it reaches me. Maybe. I'll probably have a bad time later on but that's for future Renalt to suffer through.

[Atelier-Bagur]

This is an old thread but Ill bite. WoW didnt die off because of the casuals, in fact the game was originally made to be the most casual friendly MMO in the market at the time of its release. What made WoW decline, were the slow churn complication of systems, bad design choices, monetization of in-game services with its cash shop, mishandling of content releases, unfun character progression and obvious retention systems.

Another big factor for its decline was also that by the time of WotLk's release the MMO market became oversaturated with clone products as well as the audience moving to other things once technology advanced and interests changed alongside other games and genres came out that became popular.

Basically WoW's big success was mostly being the MMO at the right place, at the right time with the gaming industry while also catering to the casual audience rather than focusing on the hardcore.

Sorry Skiros