What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Kozh]

I had the same reservations, but after they made it clear the souls were trapped within Zodiark I felt the plan had more validity. Given a core part of their culture was that they return to the star, those who selflessly sacrificed themselves were being denied that and they needed to be released.

Tbh this is what I think about the Ancients resurrection plan. Before EW, I assume the resurrection is more literal "they came back to life", but after EW somehow I get the feeling that it was so the souls within zodiark could return and being reborn.

[KageTokage]

I felt like they made it pretty clear that their intent was to truly bring them back to life because it was mentioned that they would "resume their vigil over the star together" (I can't recall whether it was Hythlodaeus or Elidibus who said that), which doesn't sound like a metaphor for returning to the Lifestream.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I remember a lot of speculation during ShB about the tempering, and that it possibly effected the WoL... which a lot of people really, really did not like. Personally would have found it interesting if both sides tragically had their free will restricted... certainly would explain my own WoL nodding and smiling with blank stares and hardly being given a variety of dialogue choices. If I had to be a bit cynical, that reaction might be why tempering in general got downplayed in the patches and also gained a 'cure', and why the Blessing of Light became a traveller's ward.

To be honest, I never got the idea that the Warrior of Light was never in control of their actions. Even if Hydaelyn does come to us at the start and tell us that Lahabrea is our enemy, we start the story as just some adventurer looking for fame and fortune. It's only because the Ascians directly try to kill us and we meet the Scions that we end up going around fixing the world.

Besides, it'd be a really cynical addition to the story to have all of the world get better and come together because of a hero that has zero free will.

[KizuyaKatogami]

To be honest, I never got the idea that the Warrior of Light was never in control of their actions. Even if Hydaelyn does come to us at the start and tell us that Lahabrea is our enemy, we start the story as just some adventurer looking for fame and fortune. It's only because the Ascians directly try to kill us and we meet the Scions that we end up going around fixing the world.

Besides, it'd be a really cynical addition to the story to have all of the world get better and come together because of a hero that has zero free will.

I don’t think it’s so much having free will(although the lack of versatile dialogue options in certain situations is really shitty), but moreso that the WoL is just there…We’re used as a loaded gun in many situations and most characters just point us where they want us to go. But now, due to the time ooop, it certainly seems like we didn’t have much of a say in anything. Everything was already set in stone. It just takes away the agency.But of course we have to keep in mind the nature of this mmo, we aren’t giving different options like some other mmo’s have so in some cases it really does feel like the WoL doesn’t have free will and just follows the same notion of palm punching,fist clenching, and frowning whenever an ascian is mentioned despite what we’ve learned of them now.

[DevonEllwood]

I honestly don't understand why more people don't have a problem with this, but I also view the sundering as a violent act and for my Azem it would have been non-consensual. Her being permanently gone is a small karmic justice. I'm still in disbelief that they turned an antagonist to the Ancients into a heroine. I wonder if Ishikawa will ever do any interviews addressing this.

If she did, it would only confirm Hydaelyn is good. I remember hearing about how she was a bit upset that two of her characters, Horsefart and Icequeen (not bothering to look up the spelling of their names) were killed off. I love her ability to give characterization to well, characters and make darker moments for the story, but at the other end her ideas for a one sided story where the scions win and badguys always lose everything is not what I want.

Which moves me to my next point, something that I haven't really seen much about because a lot of people agree it's kinda stupid is Ultima Thule, the scion "sacrifice", and the whole nihilism/gaining strength through suffering stuff. I'm not going to say that the writers have no pony in this race, there may be some who want to tell this story, my problem comes from the fact they use the scions to tell it. The scions who have been reduced to just an entity and not separate characters, who have lost others, yes, but who hasn't, who have the most impenetrable plot armour, and go on tea parties after or before their battles. These are not the characters you want to approach this topic through. It came off as extremely tactless. The only character I feel would make sense is Thancred and Estinien and I feel even they would be a weak case because we never really delve into or see their struggles that much.

The first time a tea party came off as really bad was in 5.3. Id only think I have ever been angry about the story in this game, but 5.3 set me off. Elidibus being built up and the rushed out the door was stupid, the conversation afterward with the scions irritated me, I hated the scene going to the crystal tower, and I couldn't enjoy the animation because I was beyond irritated at that point.
I went through the entirety of Endwalker with a hood on. People would remark about the WoL's expression for certain scenes and I saw none of it, and I'm glad. I could imagine any expression I wanted and to me my character had resting BF all the way through.

I do not have hopes for the patch story and I am in no way motivated to go through it. I feel it's going to be an absolute struggle for me just like 5.3 onward. The things I want my character to do is not going to happen, but I want to rip that scion link pearl off and shuck it far into the ocean. Get me away from those people, grab a dragonscale charm, find a magician to remove this stupid blessing of light, and find a way to visit a person in the underworld, who pre-acian, seemed one of the least crazy people in Elpis ironically.

I'm trying to remain positive about the next expansion, but it's kind of hard. I think about all the things that Endwalker was up against and Yoshida just wanting to end it and not caring being the bulk of the reasons why it ended up so bad.

On another note, an acquaintance at work that knew I played the game asked about how the expansion was going I don't know if it was my pausing or something else, but he said " I heard it was pretty bad?". Where would people be saying Endwalker, or the story for it was bad? Because it's not in the reviews, not on reddit.

[Rulakir]

I felt like they made it pretty clear that their intent was to truly bring them back to life because it was mentioned that they would "resume their vigil over the star together" (I can't recall whether it was Hythlodaeus or Elidibus who said that), which doesn't sound like a metaphor for returning to the Lifestream.

I believe their ultimate goal was to restore everyone but, barring that, they would still seek to release their souls even if resurrection weren't possible.

To be honest, I never got the idea that the Warrior of Light was never in control of their actions. Even if Hydaelyn does come to us at the start and tell us that Lahabrea is our enemy, we start the story as just some adventurer looking for fame and fortune. It's only because the Ascians directly try to kill us and we meet the Scions that we end up going around fixing the world.

The WoL was recruited specifically because they have the Echo. All of the Scions were tasked with seeking out people who have it. Despite the WoL conveniently showing up during encounters, I didn't get the impression we would've been given a formal invitation without that gift.

I'd forgotten that the opening cinematic is Hydaelyn showing Lahabrea as an enemy. The grooming started early, eh?

If she did, it would only confirm Hydaelyn is good. I remember hearing about how she was a bit upset that two of her characters, Horsefart and Icequeen (not bothering to look up the spelling of their names) were killed off.

This is what I don't understand. Ishikawa gets attached to all of her characters, even ones explicitly meant to be killed off (I believe Moenbryda is also one of hers) or inconsequential ones, which would've been the Crystal Tower cast before G'raha was brought back as a main character and Amon as a main antagonist. So why permanently kill off the Ancients? This is the same writer who introduced alternate timelines in order to save the WoL's life, but we don't get the same in the followup expansion to give the Ancients a happy ending?

Venat is also gone-gone, so I could almost take that as a sign she didn't actually like her character if she leaves no opening for her to return in the future (something even Fandaniel has). I have a theory that the original vision for Hydaelyn was quite different than what we got and perhaps she was pressured into making her a "good guy". It would certainly explain the inconsistencies between ShB and EW, why everything Venat does fits an antagonist, the copious amount of gaslighting, and the finality of her fate.

I'm trying to remain positive about the next expansion, but it's kind of hard. I think about all the things that Endwalker was up against and Yoshida just wanting to end it and not caring being the bulk of the reasons why it ended up so bad.

On another note, an acquaintance at work that knew I played the game asked about how the expansion was going I don't know if it was my pausing or something else, but he said " I heard it was pretty bad?". Where would people be saying Endwalker, or the story for it was bad? Because it's not in the reviews, not on reddit.

I only ever see Metacritic cited and someone noted it's only reviews from 1200 players that were made during the initial hype (and before the LL). I've seen a few people now who said they loved EW at the time, but have changed their mind since reflecting upon the story. I've been seeing more anti-Venat sentiment on Reddit too. Granted, it's still not a lot, but a recent fanart someone posted of her ended up with a long thread chain about how she and what she did was bad, which is not something that would've happened a couple of months ago.

I'm not enthusiastic about the story going forward at all. I'm just loathe to quit because FFXIV is doing a lot of things I've wanted in an MMO for years, particularly anything related to making it more solo friendly.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

I don't know if I'd use the word "grooming", since the Ascians do attack before we get a crystal, as I recall, and are very pro blowing up Shards and instigating mass genocide. Not exactly a bad idea to warn "Hey, watch out for Lahabrea in particular", considering his characterization in ARR and HW is basically just "Muahaha, chaos!" on repeat to the point that Elidibus, Emet-Selch, and Nabriales all think of him as a lunatic.

Regarding Venat's characterization, I'm sure she was always meant to be a heroine figure, at least from the moment her name was chosen. She's named after the Venat from XII that opposes the rest of her race that's trying to manipulate mankind to sinister ends. Granted, while that Venat does have good intentions and wants mankind to live free, they're more of an anti-villain than a full on hero.

[Lauront]

The Occuria are not manipulating mankind to sinister ends, per se, nor is Venat ever credited for opposing them for that reason, so much as simply "liberating" mankind from their influence - ultimately causing the eventual waning of magic from the world and the eradication of various non-human races over time. The intentions are at best murky and any "benefits" from their actions, dubious.

I don't know if I'd use the word "grooming", since the Ascians do attack before we get a crystal, as I recall, and are very pro blowing up Shards and instigating mass genocide.

Which she knows and which factored into her plan, as well as obscuring the reasons for, following her own genocide of her people.

[Kyohei]

I'm not enthusiastic about the story going forward at all. I'm just loathe to quit because FFXIV is doing a lot of things I've wanted in an MMO for years, particularly anything related to making it more solo friendly.

Yes, the story is first and foremost what kept me subbed and though I'm trying very hard to keep liking it it's just too hard with Endwalker's inconstistent story (was already hard to enjoy the bit from Elpis last cs to the end). Can't see how it's going to be better. Nothing will be able to wash away the annoying feeling Endwalker left, so those new adventures won't be "good fresh start".
On the other hand I also really love that they are adding more solo content but it really won't be enough to keep me paying every month if the world isn't interesting anymore.
Parting from the scions is great, wish it would stay that way. They are part of what made Endwalker quite insufferable. By being bland, by being entitled, by having double standards, and actually being quite heartless despite them portraying goodie two-shoes characters. That actually started earlier in 5.0 after Hades fight, where you're greeted by Alphinaud with a smiling face saying "Emet-Selch is no more!"...while the WoL just helped extinguish the hope of an entire civilisation, having to bear that on his shoulder. I wish we were given the option to tell him off for being that heartless or at least for having no decency to pay some respect to someone who just wished to save his people, like scions do. Even better would've been slapping his face but that's taking it a bit far.

[Skyborne]

Indeed, the ascians didn't really make a very good impression by trying to kill us from the get-go. Not to mention the moment we meet Lahabrea, he immediately flings a mutated tick at us. Very rude, bread-man... although I still laugh at the dramatic "EVVVViiIIIIiiLLLllll!" from Hydaelyn in that cutscene.

Of course, I'm one of those weirdos who enjoyed the ascians since 2.0, as they kind of had that OrgXIII thing going on where it seemed like there was more to them and their 'dark god', each one was a (loveable) jerk in their own way, and that each member seemed to have their own agenda and clashed with each other ala Nabriales, and the scene where Elidibus has to tug the leash on Lahabrea, and Fandaniel. And the rest of 4-5 left who we haven't seen yet. The cool robes and masks and the extradimensional crystal clubhouse with the chairs also helps. By contrast, the Scions are all long time friends who are all on the same page and all agree with each other 100% aside from Urianger's odd cloak and dagger stuff.

Who knows... perhaps the next set of (sympathetic) villains will have that dynamic.