Stop band-aid fixing the glamour system and just fix it for real

[Vrankyl]

"Can we have a more thorough fix instead of just slapping a bandaid on a fundamental issue?" =/= "these improvements are, themselves bad," let alone "WoW or nothing."

But if this is really coming from a place of "Unlocking items permanently upon spiritbonding them, at minimal server burden (since they're held alike to just 0|1 achievements instead of tagged items), with thereby infinite space and no need to consume gil-sink items, lock the item one wants the appearance of out of actual usability, or visit an inn... is bad because WoW bad... so anything WoW may have done far more efficiently and conveniently must also be bad and we should remain distinct from WoW even if only by having certain systems purposely remain less efficient and convenient than they could be," --despite no mention of WoW in the OP, only a request for an actual, lasting solution-- I at least see where you're coming from, I guess?

The problem with using WoWs gear log in comparison is there are things that FF14 has to manage that WoW doesn't. The biggest being that every single character can wear every single piece of gear in the game, so it has to be available at all times in that glamour log compared to WoW where they can just limit it based on the gear type and the weapon type. Hells, they even limit the seasonal stuff so that it is only available for use during that event where as ours is available 24/7 for use. That combined with the data for dyes means that the FF14 log would need to efficiently process far more information at the same time than the WoW log. It could be possible or it could be impossible, I'm not a video game developer or software engineer. That said, even from my position I can see why we can't just easily have what WoW has.

Though the funny thing about WoW's system is that it is just as restrictive in using it as our Glamour Plate system, but it still held on a pedestal. Even ESO's system is just as limited. The only one that would be better without limiting where we can apply glamours more is GW2, and as I pointed out they balance that out in a way that would set these forums on fire if SE copied it.

[Arzalis]

The amusing part is we're getting into a bit of a sunken cost situation for the glamour system as it is now. At a certain point it's less resource intensive to store a flag for whether a character has a gear skin or not instead of literally storing retrievable armor pieces you need to track certain values for. (They have minimized this a bit. That's why you lose things like spirit bond, materia, etc. when storing the glamour wardrobe. They just aren't storing those values.)

It takes development time they don't want to spend to make that new system, so it is easier to just increase the number of slots. That leads to a situation where they're almost certainly using the least efficient system now. So basically technical debt.

If they'd done it right the first time, the playerbase would be happier and they'd actually have a more efficient system that scales forever instead of need to readdress this every few years.

Can't debate how much care the devs put into the game, but they make extremely shortsighted decisions that really imply they don't understand their playerbase as well as they'd like. Then they get oddly stubborn about those decisions.

[LisSquid]

The problem with using WoWs gear log in comparison is there are things that FF14 has to manage that WoW doesn't. The biggest being that every single character can wear every single piece of gear in the game, so it has to be available at all times in that glamour log compared to WoW where they can just limit it based on the gear type and the weapon type. Hells, they even limit the seasonal stuff so that it is only available for use during that event where as ours is available 24/7 for use. That combined with the data for dyes means that the FF14 log would need to efficiently process far more information at the same time than the WoW log. It could be possible or it could be impossible, I'm not a video game developer or software engineer. That said, even from my position I can see why we can't just easily have what WoW has.

Though the funny thing about WoW's system is that it is just as restrictive in using it as our Glamour Plate system, but it still held on a pedestal. Even ESO's system is just as limited. The only one that would be better without limiting where we can apply glamours more is GW2, and as I pointed out they balance that out in a way that would set these forums on fire if SE copied it.

I'll argue a few points here:

The wardrobe is actually loading in everything on every character, regardless if you can wear it or not. This is how you can view, try on, and mix-and-match different sets regardless of class or availability to transmog. It's simply a "True False" test when you visit the transmogrifier. This is because of how the system works: account wide unlocked appearances.

It's also in no way more restrictive than the plate system. If I link a specific transmog to a specialization, and swap specs out in the wild, it does not give me an error that I am not in a sanctuary (not applying the outfit). You know, unlike Glamour Plates.

The true reason we need vendors and stations in these games to apply glam/mog/outfits is because of money sink. This was said in both a Q&A with Blizzard and Zenimax when the questions came up. It's why you still need glamour prisms in FFXIV (even though they are dirt cheap, and SE is still trying to find a viable gil sink. Gold mounts.. were a good try.) So this system is here to stay.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Can't debate how much care the devs put into the game, but they make extremely shortsighted decisions that really imply they don't understand their playerbase as well as they'd like. Then they get oddly stubborn about those decisions.

I think they have a pretty decent pulse for the game's success. They do at least acknowledge every expansion that players need more glamour space to accommodate more jobs. They put a lot of effort into new gear designs every patch, and clearly design new jobs with aesthetics in mind.

I just sometimes think they underestimate the extent to which glams pretty much *are* the reason why FFXIV is thriving. Sure the content is epic and gets people in the door, but the degree of character customization and how it affects freedom of expression/socialization and community-building is why FFXIV retains players.

The true reason we need vendors and stations in these games to apply glam/mog/outfits is because of money sink. This was said in both a Q&A with Blizzard and Zenimax when the questions came up. It's why you still need glamour prisms in FFXIV (even though they are dirt cheap, and SE is still trying to find a viable gil sink. Gold mounts.. were a good try.) So this system is here to stay.

Because it is only nominally a gil sink, I still think there is a good chance it could be abandoned for a free glamour log at some point.

Though from my perspective the real sink at this point isn't in the prisms, but in the limited inventory space. The idea being that forcing players to re-purchase/re-farm glams they had to discard for lack of space.

Either way, I don't think it sinks enough gil to justify existing. Players spend more on teleports in a single day than they do on glamour prisms in like three-six months.

[GrizzlyTank]

The extra space needed for the expanded wardrobe would dwarf what's needed for a compact glamour log...

Almost every armor comes in a set of 5. There is no need to log each piece individually which would save them quite a lot of storage.

[LisSquid]

Because it is only nominally a gil sink, I still think there is a good chance it could be abandoned for a free glamour log at some point.

Though from my perspective the real sink at this point isn't in the prisms, but in the limited inventory space. The idea being that forcing players to re-purchase/re-farm glams they had to discard for lack of space.

Either way, I don't think it sinks enough gil to justify existing. Players spend more on teleports in a single day than they do on glamour prisms in like three-six months.

Not to derail too much on the gil sinking aspect, but I do think the limited space is part of it. Not so much having to refarm/buy gear (though that helps), it pushes the glamour enthusiast who would spend a lot on glamour to use more prisms. Also remember that prisms used to be very different before, and you couldn't just throw a couple of GC scripts at an npc to get a stack of 99.

This doesn't mean the system is good (I am a big supporter of totally unlocked glamour. No roles or gender or location restrictions yadda yadda), but I can see the lingering intent behind the system. Trickle or not, there's a reason we need a token to glamour.

[Minthe]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-dye-the-crown

I'm bringing this here because I am pretty upset they came out with the one decent glam piece (the little ladies day crown) in awhile, but it's not even dyeable.. Do they not realize how this seriously limits a piece of clothing to people who like OTHER COLORS besides red.

[Poporito_Popoto]

Not dyeable?

[LyraMaru]

Don't know but could it be possible to have only access to glams from your current class? Maybe that'll help? I'm not a programmer but there must be a solution? The dye would be a bigger problem I guess. Maybe we would be able to choose a colour directly in the glam log.

The current system isn't good and it don't make it better if we get more plates and slots. I just don't understand why SE went that way to design the glamour dresser. Sure copy/paste an existing system from another game can't be the answer. But the system we got is so far from a proper design that I don't understand why it came to the life version of XIV.

SE knows that a large number of their playerbase loves glams. I mean - glam is the true endgame.

[Dhalya]

Maan I'd give up anything for them to implement glamour log. I'd even pay higher sub for it!

Afaik they couldn't do it because of how the dyes work, whatever just remove the dye information from obtained items! Yes, it will cost a bit more to always reapply that jet black in a plate but who cares at least there is a new gil sink. + this is actually more content for players as many love to collect stuff in MMOs and fill in the list so they would start running old dungeons and trials even more.

I can imagine it as simple as making a table of all item IDs and 0|1 if obtained or not - only accessible inside an inn room whatever. Then glam plates as we have now just storing item IDs and dye IDs. I understand its still thousands and thousands of "item IDs" but I dont really understand how they can store these so inefficiently to have issue with it