Content Idea:BCNM

[Catwho]

I played XI. I liked BCNMs back then.

You know what fills that itch in XIV?

Savage raids.

It really wouldn't be any different in implementation or loot distribution, minus the fact that you don't have to farm a key item.

Want to farm a key item? Well, that's what maps are doing in XIV, with the same loot pinata effect that BCNMs did.

[AnimaAnimus]

As a former XI player I whole heartedly agree that this would be a boon to the game. BCNMs were a lot of fun, you didn't burn out on them and they had a lot of really good drops and pieces to get from them, heck still do.

They were so diverse; none were the same really and varied in difficulty. I really looked forward to the nights our ls set aside to do them. Always a good time.

[Anienai]

I think my old BST (75cap) had 10 stacks on beast seals.

BCNM20 anyone?

[Gemina]

Going along with other ideas for resource sinks, I’d like to propose BCNMs! Iscah’s gilsink inspired me…

What is a BCNM?
From FFXI, “Burning Circle Notorious Monster”, but really it is a trial that is accessed by spending an item to enter with your party. It is a single complex fight with gimmicks, and that you can choose specifically which fight you want.

In FF14 terms, entry is similar to 14’s treasure hunt and the actual trial is more in line with blue mage’s arena fights (gimmicks) or really any 8 man trial.

What’s the point?
They offer bite sized harder content; not meant to be 100% clearable without any real need of storyline or chain of trials like savage. You could focus on one at a time with friends easily as you like.

Since it costs resources for each attempt, you give meaning to excess tomestones/company seals.

How would I do it?

I wouldn’t have entry keys available for straight gil, rather use poetics and grand company seals (different tiers of key for different trials)

I wouldn’t have them introduce any new mechanics or models. Just recycle content, mixing existing monster abilities. on par with the Eureka/Bozja boss fates.

I would make it punishing, like the debuff you get for making a mistake never goes away; 2 or 3 mistakes and dead, etc.

I’d also have lots of gimmicky ones, where you have to figure it out (like blue mage)

What would you get?
In line with Treasure Hunt maps; just a variety of stuff, with general rewards for any, plus specific things available from specific BCNMs.

That’s it!

Maps and the treasure dungeons are quite literally FFXIVs version of this. Just without carefully traversing a dungeon so an angry elemental doesn't wipe your group with one spell.

Hard pass

[kaynide]

Maps and the treasure dungeons are quite literally FFXIVs version of this. Just without carefully traversing a dungeon so an angry elemental doesn't wipe your group with one spell.

Hard pass

Except (as I said), treasure maps are cakewake/faceroll easy, but not guaranteed to pop, nor are you rewarded for skill of clearing a fight as it’s entirely random whether you even make it to the end.

…also there is no dungeon to traverse in the actual BCNM itself… that’s not something I was talking about at all.

[kaynide]

I played XI. I liked BCNMs back then.

You know what fills that itch in XIV?

Savage raids.

It really wouldn't be any different in implementation or loot distribution, minus the fact that you don't have to farm a key item.

Want to farm a key item? Well, that's what maps are doing in XIV, with the same loot pinata effect that BCNMs did.

My key point was to have risk reward, whereas you can do savage as many times as you want until it’s cleared.

Also, once savage/ex is done…they’re done. I haven’t really farmed old savage stuff as their gear was useless by the time I touched them. The gear/drops I’d be interested in are much more in line with like.. Eureka.

Treasure maps, even old ones in Stormblood, we still do about once a month for lols/something fun to do with possible interesting/sellable/fun drops, so something like BCNM I can’t really see as comparable to savage aside from the “figure it out” itch.

[Gemina]

Except (as I said), treasure maps are cakewake/faceroll easy, but not guaranteed to pop, nor are you rewarded for skill of clearing a fight as it’s entirely random whether you even make it to the end.

…also there is no dungeon to traverse in the actual BCNM itself… that’s not something I was talking about at all.

RNG is what takes the place of whatever difficulty you're referring to with the BCNM's. Maps also reward items and gil just for opening the chests even w/o a portal, while BCNM's in FFXI you could walk away with diddly squat for the amount of time spent, and a lot lighter with your seals.

I brought up traversing a dungeon because this is what you have to do to get to a BCNM in most cases. Unprepared groups that don't over level the dungeon might not even make it to the BC, let alone fight the monster(s) within it. As a former FFXI player back in the 2002 to 2007 era, I remember how ridiculously frustrating that was. Getting groups together for it, agreeing on the loot distribution, shouting for teleports to the nearest crag. What players put themselves though for the Utsusemi: Ni ninja scroll definitely could not be healthy long term. And while I know many of those things improved after I left the game, it remains a system that would not work in FFXIV. Players simply will not put forward that kind of time for rewards they are not guaranteed.

[kaynide]

RNG is what takes the place of whatever difficulty you're referring to with the BCNM's. Maps also reward items and gil just for opening the chests even w/o a portal, while BCNM's in FFXI you could walk away with diddly squat for the amount of time spent, and a lot lighter with your seals.

I brought up traversing a dungeon because this is what you have to do to get to a BCNM in most cases. Unprepared groups that don't over level the dungeon might not even make it to the BC, let alone fight the monster(s) within it. As a former FFXI player back in the 2002 to 2007 era, I remember how ridiculously frustrating that was. Getting groups together for it, agreeing on the loot distribution, shouting for teleports to the nearest crag. What players put themselves though for the Utsusemi: Ni ninja scroll definitely could not be healthy long term. And while I know many of those things improved after I left the game, it remains a system that would not work in FFXIV. Players simply will not put forward that kind of time for rewards they are not guaranteed.

There simply aren't open world dungeons in FFXIV; this just isn't a thing. In reality a FFXIV BCNM would probably just be Ul'dah's Arena. I mean, maybe it could be the aetherytes in the beasttribe bases... but either way you're not even going to get aggro there as you can just fly.

Regarding drop frustration, well, yeah. That's apples and oranges. Getting the scorpion harness in FFXIV has RNG, but it's not nearly as frustrating to get as waiting for Serket to pop and pray he actually drops the thing.

FFXIV has a completely different reward philosophy, throwing rewards at you, constantly. There is nothing in this game that retains a price tag/rarity that things like magic scrolls in FFXI had, unless you want to argue over old event items like Christmas trees. Certainly nothing that would be worth fighting over or that couldn't be solved with "your entry key, your drops" like treasure maps.

The entire point of this is that it is incredibly similar to maps, yes, but it is also a completely different experience (eg a test of skill, not a test of luck).

[Kes13a]

Too bad for you, but it works really nicely in FF11
It is not going to be a content for everyone but it is going to be a piece of content for people who likes team play

if people liked "team play" they wouldnt be going all in on buffing things with Alphinaud and crew...

[Jojoya]

Doesn't sound like my cup of tea but I'm sure there are others who would enjoy it.

So you are saying we should have difficult content with a 1-use entry fee that is lost if you fail to clear because little Jimmy was sniffing glue with 50% GCD uptime?

This will go great.

Don't queue with Little Jimmy. Queue with players you know and trust. Problem solved.

Look, I despise the "bUt tHiS iS nOT wOw" argument but this idea takes the worst part of Mythic+ and puts it in XIV. You would literally create content where you'll be hard denied from joining without good parses.

If the rewards were on par with treasure map rewards, there would be no pressure to do the content.

Why object to something optional that probably would require a relatively small amount of development time to create since it would be relying on things already in the game?

if people liked "team play" they wouldnt be going all in on buffing things with Alphinaud and crew...

Except many players do like team play and so SE continues to produce group content. If people hated team play as much as you imply, they'd stop making EX/Savage/Ultimate/PvP/etc. and be making all duties solo duties going forward. They're not doing that.

The upcoming changes aren't a replacement for group content (outside of Cape Westwind and the Lahabrea fight). They're an alternate way for those not comfortable with group content to experience it.

Both can co-exist. SE could possibly even take the OP's idea and make it scaling like they're doing with the Criterion Dungeons so players can do it solo or with friends as they like.