Content Idea:BCNM

[kaynide]

So you are saying we should have difficult content with a 1-use entry fee that is lost if you fail to clear because little Jimmy was sniffing glue with 50% GCD uptime?

This will go great.

I mean, you're clearly not familiar with how it was in XI; there is no duty finder system. You ONLY did it with trusted people. Also, harder does not mean ultimate level difficulty. Something the Rathalos EX when it was current is like, perfect.

Personally, my friends have fun figuring things out. We did in XI, and we still do now when we do Eden, etc together.

And, as is in XIV, you CAN do treasure maps with random people, but there is no system to support that either- you have to shout/gather people and talk out what you're doing. The only person to blame if you get "Jimmy" is you for not choosing your party carefully or doing it with strangers.

[SilverObi]

It would probably need some tweaking in its rewards to be "worthwhile" doing instead of treasure maps and/or to be on par with the relevance of BCNMs in XI, but that would probably be an odd metric considering most BCNMs were for good horizontal gear. I'd love to see that lowman content concept come back though especially if they really leaned into the XI trappings and gave us more unique weapon and gear appearances from it (kclub lookalike please).

I can see them avoiding the concerns Azuri is bringing up by just making them more puzzle type fights like BLU rather than pure skill checks.

[kaynide]

It would probably need some tweaking in its rewards to be "worthwhile" doing instead of treasure maps and/or to be on par with the relevance of BCNMs in XI, but that would probably be an odd metric considering most BCNMs were for good horizontal gear. I'd love to see that lowman content concept come back though especially if they really leaned into the XI trappings and gave us more unique weapon and gear appearances from it (kclub lookalike please).

I can see them avoiding the concerns Azuri is bringing up by just making them more puzzle type fights like BLU rather than pure skill checks.

I mean, ideally it'd be a completely different pool of items, similar to how treasure hunt or Eureka has..but it's own thing. Heck, I'd be fine if it was all current-existing gear, but level 1 glamour versions- even if only select parts (like the plate armor body, but a healer can wear it like we had in FF11)

Personally, I'd prefer if these were just pure combat with gimmicks, rather than gimmick-based..but I guess that's the fun of it- there could be a large variety. Even could be joke fights like 4v4 (4 npcs) where the NPCs are all retainers like we sometimes see in the field/wolves' den. (just costume and "in story" they are retainers not any actual player's retainers)

Also, just differentiating from maps: for Maps you can hold 3 at any time (1 open, 1 in either storage), and you are not guaranteed a portal. Once inside, after each fight you aren't guaranteed a next room, so the primary thing for maps is luck instead of skill. The fights themselves are random, but easy: You essentially have a 100% chance to win, as long as you're playing with any competency.

For BCNM, you are 100% guaranteed to get the fight of your choosing, but ideally a 50-70% chance to clear with basic competency. And if each fight has it's own unique drops, all the better.

[Saraide]

From where come the need of unlock keys. I know treasure maps have them but to me it feels more of a detriment to the experience than an improvement. If the fights are well made and fun to do, why not just leave them open for people to enjoy?

[kaynide]

From where come the need of unlock keys. I know treasure maps have them but to me it feels more of a detriment to the experience than an improvement. If the fights are well made and fun to do, why not just leave them open for people to enjoy?

In 11, as you killed Beastmen (goblins etc) you would gain "Beastman Seals" which could be traded for a trade-able item at the battle location. For this, the currency'd be poetics and/or GC seals

The point for this is, if you can do it infinitely, then you can just throw yourself at it until you luck out and then it might as well just be a plain old trial.
With a "cost" to enter, you're limited to how many you can do, and therefore want to do it carefully..a bit like gambling.
Also, it's something to do with a largely useless currency once you're capped out. I bought about 7,000 ventures during 5.0 with GC seals... I'll never ever run out. There's nothing else on that list I can possibly use; even the stuff that's sellable is not worth the effort to sell.

[Saraide]

In 11, as you killed Beastmen (goblins etc) you would gain "Beastman Seals" which could be traded for a trade-able item at the battle location. For this, the currency'd be poetics and/or GC seals

The point for this is, if you can do it infinitely, then you can just throw yourself at it until you luck out and then it might as well just be a plain old trial.
With a "cost" to enter, you're limited to how many you can do, and therefore want to do it carefully..a bit like gambling.
Also, it's something to do with a largely useless currency once you're capped out. I bought about 7,000 ventures during 5.0 with GC seals... I'll never ever run out. There's nothing else on that list I can possibly use; even the stuff that's sellable is not worth the effort to sell.

The limiting factor regular people already have is time. People already dont want their time to be wasted from non functional groups.

If you make the cost of entry so lax that it basically doesnt matter like if you were to use GC seals for it then you might aswell cut that step. If the only thing that's different about your suggestions from normal trials is the entry method then you very clearly have not struck gold with your suggestion. What's the problem with doing a fight until you figure it out? Wouldnt you still have to do that even with an entry cost? Wouldnt that just lead to looking up detailed guides beforehand basically being mandatory? Wouldnt that just punish blind groups for no good reason?

[kaynide]

The limiting factor regular people already have is time. People already dont want their time to be wasted from non functional groups.

If you make the cost of entry so lax that it basically doesnt matter like if you were to use GC seals for it then you might aswell cut that step. If the only thing that's different about your suggestions from normal trials is the entry method then you very clearly have not struck gold with your suggestion. What's the problem with doing a fight until you figure it out? Wouldnt you still have to do that even with an entry cost? Wouldnt that just lead to looking up detailed guides beforehand basically being mandatory? Wouldnt that just punish blind groups for no good reason?

I mean, if it cost like, 15,000 GC seals for 1 shot, that's not "nothing". 30,000 maybe even 50,000 for the "hard" ones. It's not hard to get, but it's not like it'll replenish in a day unless you're going full-nerd mode. Or like 1-2,000 poetics.

The problem is "figuring it out" doesn't make it different from a normal trial, in which case, there's no point. The point, entirely, of BCNM is the increased risk-reward.

Also, the point of this is not for hardcore raiders to do. They have content. They would certainly burn through this in a week with lots of grinding.

After the dust settles, this is for a group of friends who want to goof off on a Friday night, when they're all like "hey guys, I have a butt ton of seals built up.. wanna go do a few BCNM? Maybe get that (herpaderp)?"
..basically what we already do with maps.

[kaynide]

Ath192: Basically yeah; if each BCNM had 1 or 2 rare RNG drops that'd be amazing.

I'd say my target audience is the mid-core players. People who do the raid series, but not really interested in Savage...and also people who play fairly long term, generating lots of unused currency. Basically something to do once you've done all the main content,but also something you can just "pick up and play" with friends without lots of scheduling/organizing.

[aveyond-dreams]

Gambling? Like some free to play game? Hard pass. This sounds like the system that many WoW players are vocally upset about and I cannot say I'd support this over other forms of battle content.

[kaynide]

Gambling? Like some free to play game? Hard pass. This sounds like the system that many WoW players are vocally upset about and I cannot say I'd support this over other forms of battle content.

Oh lord, we're talking the most scratch-ticket of scratch tickets in "gambling" here. I mean, sure, if you're going to ignore everything else written and zero in on the word "Gambling", I can't really help you.

I have no idea what Wow does, so I can't comment there. This is the equivalent of a carnival game where you pay to knock over the bottles, but unless you know the trick or figure it out it, you probably won't win the prize first shot. Even going in blind you could win though, but it's not like you are losing weeks of life because you goofed...or whatever stupid thing WoW does.