Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[BaconBits]

Which is funny because after the lvl 85 Healing Potency trait buff, right now Medica 2 is the exact same cast time as Cure II, the exact same MP cost as Cure II. . . AND MORE TOTAL POTENCY ON EVERY TARGET IT HITS.

Medica II: 1000 total Potency. Cure II: 800 Potency.

Medica II is better than Cure II on a potency basis in every way. You can't make this up. . . This is a prime example of why people say the devs have no idea how healers actually play or how they interact.



I wouldn't mind if Lustrate got the Taurochole treatment and reduced the target's damage taken.

I genuinely have no words.

[zcrash970]

I genuinely have no words.

Goes to further prove that devs literally did not playtest anything for this expansion.

Smn
Dragon kick mnk
Paradox blm
Drk
Whm
War self heal insanity

Like there's a difference between unbalanced and untested

[AngeliouxRein]

Yeah… can’t say I didn’t see those responses coming since my own thoughts was in the same ball park lol. But if anything, with the intense amount of WHM that came together, I at least am going to think mp will be improved for WHM. Maybe some buffs to the heal kit too? Other healers, might some how be a mix of buffs and weird nerfs or something straight up removed because reasons…

[Ixon]

Goes to further prove that devs literally did not playtest anything for this expansion.

Smn
Dragon kick mnk
Paradox blm
Drk
Whm
War self heal insanity

Like there's a difference between unbalanced and untested

I don't think trying to hold SE accountable for things like Dragon Kick MNK or Paradox BLM is in the same category. There is no PTR, so they are reliant on their dev team and internal testers. Not to mention jobs are designed to be played in a certain way. However, Yoshi-P himself has stated many times that they will never be as smart as their players, which isn't a bad thing, it's just a fact. However many hundred of devs is nothing compared to the millions that play the game, and there is a good chance the player will find a way to play the job better than the devs ever intended. Same thought process applies with intended raid strategies vs what the player comes up with. Sometimes it's broken like NIN at NIN's release, and sometimes it's fun like MNK double TK opener in SB or how again MNK can do the double Solar opener to align Phantom Rush with 2-min burst where Yoshi-P himself stated in Drak's interview it wasn't designed with that in mind.

SMN is just a playstyle conflict(old mains hate it, new players seem to love it), and WAR self healing was always insane, it's just easier to access now. I think really DRK and WHM are the unanimously disliked kits on that list that have nothing really to do with anything other than their less fun gameplay.(DRK being in almost every world first and WHM being in slightly less if I recall.) To be fair, I dropped DRK in SB because I disliked the direction myself, but now I'm a happy GNB main.

[Darnath]

I don't think trying to hold SE accountable for things like Dragon Kick MNK or Paradox BLM is in the same category. There is no PTR, so they are reliant on their dev team and internal testers. Not to mention jobs are designed to be played in a certain way. However, Yoshi-P himself has stated many times that they will never be as smart as their players, which isn't a bad thing, it's just a fact. However many hundred of devs is nothing compared to the millions that play the game, and there is a good chance the player will find a way to play the job better than the devs ever intended. Same thought process applies with intended raid strategies vs what the player comes up with. Sometimes it's broken like NIN at NIN's release, and sometimes it's fun like MNK double TK opener in SB or how again MNK can do the double Solar opener to align Phantom Rush with 2-min burst where Yoshi-P himself stated in Drak's interview it wasn't designed with that in mind.

SMN is just a playstyle conflict(old mains hate it, new players seem to love it), and WAR self healing was always insane, it's just easier to access now. I think really DRK and WHM are the unanimously disliked kits on that list that have nothing really to do with anything other than their less fun gameplay.(DRK being in almost every world first and WHM being in slightly less if I recall.) To be fair, I dropped DRK in SB because I disliked the direction myself, but now I'm a happy GNB main.

Yup, players being more clever than the devs/testers, especially with how broken some jobs are now (WAR tanks) sometimes makes me wish there was a PTR but ONLY.. ONLY for job testing. No new content, just job testing. Some days I wonder if the devs only test certain jobs and others are just "throw darts and whatever sticks, we apply"

[BrokentoothMarch]

I envy most people in this thread. What a carefree life one must live to be able to fill the social void with some weird and schizophrenic parasocial relationship with a company that couldn't care less if you died tomorrow. To grant such importance to it that you'd spend hours defending what would be stated as objective design shortcomings in quite literally any other game.

The community is so casualized and viciously "positively" toxic that reasoning with it has become impossible. And now the dev team take advantage of that to show flippant remarks and what would be reviled arrogance, again, in any other scenario. This is why I don't play in DF anymore. This is why I'm struggling to find a reason to do anything except play BLU and pretend Yoshi didn't take a fat steaming one over one of my favorite classes in the series with a laughable excuse that this community took on the chin. Yes. FFXI, a game from two decades ago, simply had access to alien technology that allowed that job to be born and allowed other jobs to maintain an engagement and identity that didn't hinge off the holy role trinity that is so heavily enforced because Yoshi's imagination is limited to whatever WoW thought up.

Healers have been told to take a hike. The past year or so tanks have been realizing we've been suffering a similar homogenization. But it's okay because daddy Yoshi knows what he's doing and as long as a new DPS class is released every expansion, there is naught to complain about.

I don't know who you people are, but you aren't the community that was around when HW released. I don't know where they went, but I'm probably going to end up unsubbing someday soon and following suit if both the game and it's community will so willfully decay like this.

/Rant

[Silver-Strider]

Out of curiosity, what does everyone think the adjustments will be for healers based on the live letter?

I'm basing this purely on speculation and a hell of a lot of copium
The way I see it, is that the new Ultimate isn't clearable with certain classes and if I had to guess, WHM is probably really struggling with the new Ultimate. Sure, the heal check might not be THAT difficult but the fact is, WHM's MP economy might not be able to hold it up to a place that SE is comfort with it in its current state. Looking at FFlogs, WHM has to heal the least of all the healers, relying solely on Lilies and the few oGCDs it has, in order to even begin to enter into the same playing field as the other healers in terms of its raid contribution. That might work in an 8 minute Savage raid to cover up its MP economy but an Ultimate fight typically lasts twice that length and since the math has already shown that WHM's MP economy is unsustainable for that long, its performance will obviously show very poorly. Since SE specifically mentioned WHM when talking about job adjustments, the way I see it is that they'll probably end up buffing their MP economy in some way.

Assize being buffed to 10% MP helps but realistically wouldn't be enough on its own.
Reducing the cost of Medica 2 and Cure 2 doesn't really help because just using Glare non-stop is enough to tap out WHM's MP in a long fight so unless they just flat out lower the cost of WHM's healing spells to be cheaper than Glare, it doesn't resolve anything.
They could lower the CD on some of their oGCDs. I'd be surprised if they did because I don't see that happening at all.
Maybe some adjustments to the Lily System? Quicker to build Lilies and/or Misery getting a DPS buff? Possible. Probably the most likely outcome really but I wouldn't put my money on it personally.
Thin Air getting rolled back to its ShB iteration? I see them adding a 3rd charge before that ended up happening, even though that would instantly fix WHMs MP economy on its own since it's literally what broke the camel's back to start with.

IDK, I do feel that WHM (and probably MCH) are currently the weakest class in the game and the Ultimate fight is just highlighting some problem areas that the Devs are just now realizing for themselves, despite our rants about those issues since the very beginning. Not holding out hope that they'll adjust even half of that but, again, it's just my speculations on the matter.

[AngeliouxRein]

I'm basing this purely on speculation and a hell of a lot of copium…

I’d like to think that WHM will at least get some nerfs on cost of MP and maybe at least some mp buffs to assize and thin air. The changes you mentioned seemed to be widespread thing that most were wanting but… who knows… it might be too much copingway vibes trying to make me believe they will do major changes lol.

[Melorie]

I'm not surprised by this instance, but I am disappointed. I guess I'll keep stopping by for things such as housing, story and other fluff, but the combat of this game for anyone that enjoys playing a healer role is depressing, and it doesn't seem that the devs are willing to change any of this.

What is surprising though is the amount of people that shrink all the discussion around this to "oh you want to wreck casual players" (when casual players are the ones that suffer the most from this) "just play harder content" (when clearly this doesn't solve the issue) "you want things to be harder" (when engaging and hard are two very different things). This has been discussed over and over again, and you will still have people telling the healer community that they just aren't giving the proper feedback or acting like anyone criticizing something is part of some sort of hardcore bad guy gang. The community having this stance wouldn't make me sad if this wasn't clearly a vision shared by the developers as well.

A pity, really. I enjoy the aesthetics of the game, but nowadays, it looks like the game is basically only this. Beautiful skills and animations that are extremely shallow when it comes to player skill and synergy. I can't bring myself to enjoy the combat of this any longer. Doing the endwalker MSQ as a healer was one of the worst experiences I ever had in a RPG, I can't even imagine a person trying it from the very beginning until the end.

[Pallero]

I wish even ultimate was that "engaging" healing...

Twintania, nael, you just wait for next phase doing dps and using oGCDs. Baha you entirely heal outside the time you could do damage, but then again even damage doesn't matter because you overkill him by 20% now. Adds is the only one where a tank might die if two healers disconnect at the same time. Golden is massive whatever again, it requires more mitigation effort from the non-healers than healers.
All UWU bosses jump out for one gcd every single time you need to heal. Only orbs and primal roulette need healing on uptime at all.
Only living liquid offered some timing challenge, but that's also because we fed dolls 2+2, you could take much more time at it if you wished to. Alex / Perfect are extreme trial level of healing again.

Even all of this content is 90% dps filler casting, with no almost no unexpected variables besides tank ice target in BJCC phase.

No matter how the damage of the new ultimate coming out is going to be, it'll surely be almost entirely doable with tank / dps mitigation spells and healer oGCDs (woven after the now 1,5sec casted dps spam spell of course) again after the first 10 pulls it takes to get used to it. Then we just broil again and dream of the glorious days of five dots in heavensward.