Has anyone quit healing?

[ForteNightshade]

What's especially not fun for healers is if the static has issues early, they end up with little but books for their efforts, and they have to do it all over again with another group. I don't think gear should be a source of contention for statics; healers should be getting something more than just pages since they also contribute to the raid.

Ironically, this is largely due to how damage centric FFXIV is. There's no reason to prioritize healers because skipping mechanics makes the fight easier and nets better logs. If we saw actually threatening raid wides or tanks were getting thumped into the ground, then it'd actually be a worthwhile discussion on who to prioritize for gearing. In fact, I believe WoW statics do exactly that due to far higher outgoing damage—favoring tanks and then tanks, if I recall. Alas, that simply isn't the case. Of course, it all depends on the static you join and their aspirations. If they're clearing relatively last into the tier, I don't really see a point to loot prioritizing. If you can down P4S within the first four weeks though? It just makes sense to gear the DPS. My preferred method, and what my static did, is DPS/Tank/Healer priority only if BiS. We'd then use non-BiS pieces as side grades.

That being said, gearing as a whole needs a facelift. It's a bit absurd that even with alt split clears, it'll still take seven weeks for some jobs to be BiS. This assumes you don't buy a tome weapon and cleared up to P4 on week 1.

[RinaShinomiya]

Cure III has its function as an always available burst heal, it's what White Mage can do that Astro can't.

Cure 3 is perhaps my least used WHM ability so that sure is one leg WHM has over AST.
Not to mention it being just 200 potency stronger than Medica & having a really abyssmal range is really weak for a unique gimmick. You can use Afflatus Rapture coupled with Plenary and not only are you healing the same amount as Cure 3 without Plenary but also lose less DPS and MP.
Casting four Cure 3's during a plenary window is 6000 MP and Thin air can only halve that, good luck weaving it tho because Cure 3 cast time is too long, preventing you from not clipping.

Cure I and Medica exist as last resorts.

The only reasons these buttons exist on my hotbar at all is because I macro'd them together with Lilies & abilities they should upgrade into. ARR throwback time:




The macro works as follows:
If I have Lilies, Afflatus is casted
If I don't have lilies, Cure 2 is casted
If I have neither (e.g. Sastasha), Cure 1 is casted

Same with Medica & Afflatus Rupture.
Disclaimer: These macros aren't optimal as they aren't getting the same GCD queue system as non-macro'd Abilities, I just do this to have a clean UI.

Don't reduce what little choice I have by rolling lillies into basic cure abilities.

The choice of going 310 potency & 1000 MP negative vs going 110 potency & 0 MP negative? What kinda choice is that?

And I certainly don't understand the suggestion of making Misery dps neutral. This suggestion almost always comes from long time and hardcore raiders. Don't these demographics play Astrologian, or do they play White Mage and only heal using Asylum and Liturgy? In addition, all that would accomplish is making players bust their lillies regardless of party status to fit misery into buff windows.

And the alternative of using Lilies as little as humanly possible to not lose too much DPS is better? Healing on Sage & Astro doesn't cost you DPS, both have powerful oGCD that don't penalize for doing your job.

inb4 "But I always heal with GCD heals and Lillies" then you're just not playing optimally, which is fine if you don't but this doesn't make the argument from people who do care about optimal play less valid.

Scholar already has the same dilemma with Energy Drain and I certainly don't see people saying indom is a "dps loss".

Don't worry, people are complaining about it and this issue was fixed before Endwalker released but cropped back up again.

[IceBlueNinja]

Cure 3 is perhaps my least used WHM ability so that sure is one leg WHM has over AST.
Not to mention it being just 200 potency stronger than Medica & having a really abyssmal range is really weak for a unique gimmick. You can use Afflatus Rapture coupled with Plenary and not only are you healing the same amount as Cure 3 without Plenary but also lose less DPS and MP.
Casting four Cure 3's during a plenary window is 6000 MP and Thin air can only halve that, good luck weaving it tho because Cure 3 cast time is too long, preventing you from not clipping.



The only reasons these buttons exist on my hotbar at all is because I macro'd them together with Lilies & abilities they should upgrade into. ARR throwback time:




The macro works as follows:
If I have Lilies, Afflatus is casted
If I don't have lilies, Cure 2 is casted
If I have neither (e.g. Sastasha), Cure 1 is casted

Same with Medica & Afflatus Rupture.
Disclaimer: These macros aren't optimal as they aren't getting the same GCD queue system as non-macro'd Abilities, I just do this to have a clean UI.



The choice of going 310 potency & 1000 MP negative vs going 110 potency & 0 MP negative? What kinda choice is that?



And the alternative of using Lilies as little as humanly possible to not lose too much DPS is better? Healing on Sage & Astro doesn't cost you DPS, both have powerful oGCD that don't penalize for doing your job.

inb4 "But I always heal with GCD heals and Lillies" then you're just not playing optimally, which is fine if you don't but this doesn't make the argument from people who do care about optimal play less valid.



Don't worry, people are complaining about it and this issue was fixed before Endwalker released but cropped back up again.

lol i always forget cure 3 exist like undraw on ast only to be like uh oh ye i dont even have cure 3 ever when i use to play whm

[Fiorinol]

Cure 3 is perhaps my least used WHM ability so that sure is one leg WHM has over AST.

Cure 3 was useful to me in TEA and PF. You can also use Plenary with Cure 3, as well as Asylum and Temperance. It adds up quickly. Because you barely use it doesn't mean it doesn't have uses. BRD has an ability called The Warden's Paean, it's completely useless 99% of the time since it's used to remove debuffs.

I macro'd them together with Lilies & abilities they should upgrade into. ARR throwback time:

It used to be the case that you would use lilies for movement in Shadowbringers. It's not as much of an issue now with reduced cast times, but you still can't heal and move quickly at the same time. Blasting an Afflatus Solace on someone who messed up a mechanic means you don't have that lily for later. That can screw you over on some mechanics where you need to move but also heal players.

WHM just doesn't have enough buttons to justify merging lily skills into the regular GCD ones and it takes away that choice.

inb4 "But I always heal with GCD heals and Lillies"

Let me ask the same question then, if you want to heal only using OGCDs, why are you playing White Mage?

I frankly do not understand this line of questioning where healers exist in this universe where no healing is ever required. I've played in all sorts of statics, including casual ones where the healers aren't that great, and PFs where healers are very disorganized and sometimes value their damage over healing the party. In these situations, you're going to need those lilies.

Lily abilities are also more efficient and don't cost mana.

Medica II:

• Costs 1000 Mana
• Opportunity cost of 310 potency (1 Glare)
• Heals for 1000 potency after 15 seconds (0.31 damage per healing potency)
• Requires you to stay immobile

Afflatus Rapture:

• Costs no mana
• Opportunity cost of ~115 potency
• Heals for 400 potency (0.2875 damage per healing potency)
• Allows you to move

That's not to mention that Rapture can apply Indulgence more than once, while you tend to use Medica II once, which makes it even more efficient. Then you can use Misery inside a buff window. Let's say that you have a Monk, a Bard, and a Monk. Their buffs will give you a 1.06 * 1.05 * 1.05 damage multiplier. Ergo, your 900 potency misery now does 1050 potency, that's not to mention the Direct Hit buff from the BRD. You're effectively missing 190 potency in this scenario for 1200 potency of party healing or 2400 potency of single target healing.

Of course that's going to depend on what you want to do. If you want to argue it on a purely DPS basis, you're always going to take Astrologian even if the white mage never heals and only casts damage spells. Astrologian just does more damage than White Mage right now. I'm not going to disagree on the basis that Misery damage doesn't need a buff, I think it does. But I don't think the intent of the original design was for it to be DPS neutral.

[Silver-Strider]

Of course that's going to depend on what you want to do. If you want to argue it on a purely DPS basis, you're always going to take Astrologian even if the white mage never heals and only casts damage spells. Astrologian just does more damage than White Mage right now. I'm not going to disagree on the basis that Misery damage doesn't need a buff, I think it does. But I don't think the intent of the original design was for it to be DPS neutral.

There has been numerous questionable design decisions by the Dev team over the years that I would say that, regardless of whatever their original design was, it clearly isn't working out. ShB's Lily System was a breath of fresh air after the fiasco of SB Lilies and a step in the right direction but people were asking for Misery to be DPS neutral even back then but now that the flaws of the Lily system have been made even more numerous with the changes brought in by EW (The cast time changes, nerf to Thin Air and the potency increase of Glare III but no corresponding buff to Misery), it's more pressing now to address it than it was before.

[Maltothoris]

Of course that's going to depend on what you want to do. If you want to argue it on a purely DPS basis, you're always going to take Astrologian even if the white mage never heals and only casts damage spells. Astrologian just does more damage than White Mage right now. I'm not going to disagree on the basis that Misery damage doesn't need a buff, I think it does. But I don't think the intent of the original design was for it to be DPS neutral.

The design does need to change one way or another. Here is an a very ancient post from 2015 in regards back to pld during heavensward. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post3331610 Yoshi P distinctly thgat magic would never be blocked and come Stormblood looked what happened. Paladins could block magic because they never could figure out the right way to even out physical attacks and magical attacks during that whole expansion. So at this point it would probably be better for Misery to be neutral.

[Hysterior]

The macro works as follows:
If I have Lilies, Afflatus is casted
If I don't have lilies, Cure 2 is casted
If I have neither (e.g. Sastasha), Cure 1 is casted

I actually love this... Curious of testing it out.

[Mortex]

Cure 3 was useful to me in TEA and PF. You can also use Plenary with Cure 3, as well as Asylum and Temperance. It adds up quickly. Because you barely use it doesn\\'t mean it doesn\\'t have uses. BRD has an ability called The Warden\\'s Paean, it\\'s completely useless 99% of the time since it\\'s used to remove debuffs.




It used to be the case that you would use lilies for movement in Shadowbringers. It\\'s not as much of an issue now with reduced cast times, but you still can\\'t heal and move quickly at the same time. Blasting an Afflatus Solace on someone who messed up a mechanic means you don\\'t have that lily for later. That can screw you over on some mechanics where you need to move but also heal players.

WHM just doesn\\'t have enough buttons to justify merging lily skills into the regular GCD ones and it takes away that choice.



Let me ask the same question then, if you want to heal only using OGCDs, why are you playing White Mage?

I frankly do not understand this line of questioning where healers exist in this universe where no healing is ever required. I\\'ve played in all sorts of statics, including casual ones where the healers aren\\'t that great, and PFs where healers are very disorganized and sometimes value their damage over healing the party. In these situations, you\\'re going to need those lilies.

Lily abilities are also more efficient and don\\'t cost mana.

Medica II:

• Costs 1000 Mana
• Opportunity cost of 310 potency (1 Glare)
• Heals for 1000 potency after 15 seconds (0.31 damage per healing potency)
• Requires you to stay immobile

Afflatus Rapture:

• Costs no mana
• Opportunity cost of ~115 potency
• Heals for 400 potency (0.2875 damage per healing potency)
• Allows you to move

That\\'s not to mention that Rapture can apply Indulgence more than once, while you tend to use Medica II once, which makes it even more efficient. Then you can use Misery inside a buff window. Let\\'s say that you have a Monk, a Bard, and a Monk. Their buffs will give you a 1.06 * 1.05 * 1.05 damage multiplier. Ergo, your 900 potency misery now does 1050 potency, that\\'s not to mention the Direct Hit buff from the BRD. You\\'re effectively missing 190 potency in this scenario for 1200 potency of party healing or 2400 potency of single target healing.

First of misery needs too deal 310 potency more in a buff window for it too be dmg neutral and good luck getting this even when all jobs in the raid give you raidbuffs.

Pretty sure from the 100 % white mage player base, 50 % play because straight forward, 25% masochistic white mage mains and 25% because sparkle ( I even say astro has way more sparkle then whm).

Everything whitemage does every other healer can do better in all situations. The babyhealer mentality kills the job because it’s stuck in a loop of mediocrity

[RinaShinomiya]

WHM just doesn't have enough buttons to justify merging lily skills into the regular GCD ones and it takes away that choice.

Using Afflatus or worse Afflatus that doesn't consume lily is not a choice. Rapture even has a higher range than Medica! There is no point in using Medica if you have lilies.

Let me ask the same question then, if you want to heal only using OGCDs, why are you playing White Mage?

While there are people asking for WHM to get more oGCD heals i am not one of them, the contrary actually, I'd prefer if stuff like Tetra gave a lily instead of oGCD Cure 2. And this is why lilies need to be DPS neutral. This system would be slapping on WHM if it wasn't under performing and would actually give WHM some sort of unique playstyle even if it is in technicality only. Lilies not being DPS neutral is why WHM is a just a "Bad oGCD healer" instead of a "Strong GCD healer". And on that note, Lilies being used for movement & weaving in ShB is what excused them from being a DPS negative back in the day. There is no excuse now and the gap only widened.

Lily abilities are also more efficient and don't cost mana.

Which is why it's not a choice between Medica & Rapture or Cure II & Solace. It just doesn't exist, the old abilities are straight up worse and will hurt your MP economy which already requires your to sacc DPS for piety.

[Sebazy]

TBH i dont really understand much of the concerns. Like sure WHM needs some love but healers r really not broken at their core. Y do u want flashy DMG buttons on a healer? Go play DPS a bit to scratch ur itch. Y do u want more DMG buttons on a healer? Is the addition of a 123 really gonna solve ur problems? Ppl r clamouring for putting 123 into a one button combo like in PVP, and u can already do that with plugins if u choose. There is serious ability bloat going on and u guys want even more?

I had a discussion with my static and they told me that healing requirements go up in tiers 2 and 3. So i guess this is the easy tier. Might be a better idea to just keep it even across the board, i think their argument was so that more ppl can clear the first tier?

So if u wanna be busy, go play astro. I love that job, but i simply dont have the time to learn to play it at a high lvl as an alt job, so i appreciate there being a more approachable/simple WHM choice.

What i do agree with though is that there just needs to be more dmg going out. In all content. Raidwides literally do nothing in casual content (dungeons, normal raids), u could just heal up with ur standard health regeneration. The only times i noticed HP bars getting chunked to a decent degree is in the last boss of dead ends. I suspect thats gonna go away in a few weeks once the general population has more ilvl.

I just don’t want to press the same button 120+ times in a 10 minute fight.

How is that hard to grasp?