Toxic DPS

[Absimiliard]

[ZephyrMenodora]

Tanks that fail to pull wall to wall, that don't use sprint, etc. should be kicked right before the last boss. If people are looking to "teach those lousy, pulling DPS a lesson," then they can get a taste of their own medicine.

Surprised this got upvotes. This is a clear violation of FFXIV's prohibited activities. If this happened to me because my skill level isn't to the liking of people like this poster, I'd screenshot and report.

Here is the link - it may be helpful for this poster to review. https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...la=1&kid=68216

In response to OP, I'd just try to pick up the mobs if someone brings it to you. If your party wipes, then politely request they stop because it's not working. If it does work, you are saving yourself time. There is no need to let another player die who is probably trying to help. I know many people who pull who are trying to be helpful and bring mobs to you so you can easily get them.

I'm a player who started in 2014 but I typically only play a few months every two years for the expansion. So if I'm in a group that doesn't have a Trust available, I'm probably doing something for my first time or I simply can't remember as I haven't been in the zone for literally years. I have avoided tanking for most of my life in FFXIV but recently started exploring it as I find it interesting to learn.

That said, I'm an older player and not one of the people who has done these dungeons 400 times and just wants their rewards as soon as possible. My learning curve usually takes me a few times to get good at a dungeon, and that's assuming it's not months/years before I see it again. I'm usually slow my first run as I don't know or remember what's going on, even if I had watched a video first. Second time a little faster. Third even better. That said I probably realistically won't ever be one of those mega-tanks people in these threads seem to want. My reaction times aren't always 100%. My warrior AE is a cone and sometimes when people pull everything a few mobs run by my cone before I get my AE which is 2nd on the chain. I can't always click on the mob I need to pull immediately, and tabbing sometimes pulls everything but what I need aggro on. Sometimes I can't find my mouse pointer on my screen in all the chaos to try to click on it directly, or there is a huge cluster and I can't click on it.

Some people in this thread would vote kick me despite doing my best. But this is a violation of the TOS. At the end of the day, the devs invite players to their game of all skill levels and playstyles. As long as they are trying, they would view being antagonistic, rude, and vote-dismissing an abuse, and rightfully so. When you join a Duty Finder, you are accepting you are getting random players with varying levels of skill. If you have standards that must be met, create your own parties for content.

As opposed to this thread, my encounters with anyone having an issue with my mediocre tanking is rare. Most people don't care. Lately I usually have a new player in most things I do, who is even more clueless than I am. And we still clear the content.

[Ryaduera]

The thing that gets me about this thread is that the problem asked about wasn't even DPS pulling more than the tank was comfortable with, it was about them being toxic about it, and then people responded saying if the tank wasn't up to their personal standards they would be toxic about it. The tanks will be far more receptive of your request if you're just, like... nice. Don't serve what you can't eat, if you be a dick to the tank they'll probably do it back.

[Absimiliard]

Surprised this got upvotes. This is a clear violation of FFXIV's prohibited activities. If this happened to me because my skill level isn't to the liking of people like this poster, I'd screenshot and report.

Some people in this thread would vote kick me despite doing my best. But this is a violation of the TOS. At the end of the day, the devs invite players to their game of all skill levels and playstyles. As long as they are trying, they would view being antagonistic, rude, and vote-dismissing an abuse, and rightfully so. When you join a Duty Finder, you are accepting you are getting random players with varying levels of skill. If you have standards that must be met, create your own parties for content.

Knowingly and deliberately slowing a run down, refusing to pull mobs off of others (regardless of whether or not they intentionally ran ahead to grab them), and generally engaging in activities that in some way harm the party and/or help the enemy are also a TOS violation. Several TOS violations at once, in fact.

Since you decided to disregard the later elaboration of the initial point, allow me to quote it for you:

Bait? I'm completely serious. Not pulling fast enough, not properly mitigating, not grabbing enough mobs, not using sprint. etc. are all git gud problems. If someone is new to tanking that's one thing; take it easy, let them learn. If they're clearly not? Remove them at the last boss to ensure as much of their time has been wasted as possible. Also do this if you have one of those "you pull it, you tank it" people, though individuals with that mentality are generally already so bad at the game you might actually be better off with a DPS tanking.

The same should be done with healers that won't DPS and DPS that won't AoE on trash, provided of course they're not new. Like I said, new people need to be given some slack so they can actually learn what to do.

As you can clearly see, the point is not to slight people that are "doing their best" or in the process of learning. The point is to waste the time of people that should know better and are going out of their way to screw the party over. Happens a lot more often than anyone should be comfortable with.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Knowingly and deliberately slowing a run down, refusing to pull mobs off of others (regardless of whether or not they intentionally ran ahead to grab them), and generally engaging in activities that in some way harm the party and/or hinder the enemy are also a TOS violation. Several TOS violations at once, in fact.

Since you decided to disregard the later elaboration of the initial point, allow me to quote it for you:


As you can clearly see, the point is not to slight people that are "doing their best" or in the process of learning. The point is to waste the time of people that should know better and are going out of their way to screw the party over. Happens a lot more often than anyone should be comfortable with.

I can like that point - I agree here. Purposely wasting other players' time I feel is disrespectful to those in the run. I don't think the group is only about the tank, but 4 to 8 people in the run so I believe in doing your best to try to come up with a pace that works for all.

[Lyth]

I'm not a fan of the 'You pull you tank mentality' - it's mostly exercised by tanks who have just barely enough experience to have an ego, and not nearly enough to be aware of their own shortcomings. That being said, it's still a team game, and you always have to adjust your expectations based on what happens in the run. Sometimes you can tell in advance that with the current group, a certain pull will result in a wipe without adjustments being made (split pulls, LB, focusing a specific target first, etc). You're better off anticipating and pre-empting these issues rather than expecting the run to automatically play out the way that it usually does.

You're not going to change duty finder, and you're unlikely to see the same people again. Your goal should always be to clear the run as efficiently as possible from your own end. While I can see why it was suggested, Absimiliard's suggestion is a unilaterally mean-spirited one. Don't abuse the vote kick system. It puts you on the same level as the people you think you're out to punish.

[Liam_Harper]

If not, how do you tank mains go about dealing with it?

I don't tank in dungeons. Plenty of alternate paths to max level.

I'm fine trying big pulls and agree with others that "you pull you tank" is a bad mentality, but even then it's never enough. Tanks are basically the group slave. It's considered acceptable to sprint into mobs, rescue the tank into mobs, for healers to get mad if they want smaller pulls, for groups to get mad if the big pull wasn't big enough, to blame the tank if they pull big and die.

I just skipped dungeons and stick to raids. After all the mindset is, "if you can't handle abuse, don't join as tank", so I don't. They can enjoy the queues.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I don't tank in dungeons. Plenty of alternate paths to max level.

I'm fine trying big pulls and agree with others that "you pull you tank" is a bad mentality, but even then it's never enough. Tanks are basically the group slave. It's considered acceptable to sprint into mobs, rescue the tank into mobs, for healers to get mad if they want smaller pulls, for groups to get mad if the big pull wasn't big enough, to blame the tank if they pull big and die.

I just skipped dungeons and stick to raids. After all the mindset is, "if you can't handle abuse, don't join as tank", so I don't. They can enjoy the queues.

I wouldn't let the conversations in the forums discourage you from tanking if you want to in groups. Most people in game are far more polite and patient then we see in threads here where people argue.

I let the forums and reddit convos scare me away from tanking for years but the reality of the in-game playerbase is far different.

[Xtro99]

Just got out of Saint Mocianne’s Arboretum (Hard) as DRK. Pulled roughly two mobs at a time and at one point a SAM ran ahead and started fighting another mob while I and the team were still dealing with my current pull. I responded “Don’t pull ahead of me, please”. Their response? “Then pull like a man.” I explained I’m not a tank main and going at a pace I’m comfortable with and to not be a dick. They responded “Don’t make me laugh”.
The last boss they and the rest of the team died to failed mechanics but I managed to solo the boss from about 40%. It felt good, but my mood’s been soured from this toxic DPS. Is their behavior reportable? If not, how do you tank mains go about dealing with it?

Ngl, I would've responded "well, I'm not a man, got a problem with that?" and watch the SAM get himself suspended with his next answer.

[HisShadowX]

Just got out of Saint Mocianne’s Arboretum (Hard) as DRK. Pulled roughly two mobs at a time and at one point a SAM ran ahead and started fighting another mob while I and the team were still dealing with my current pull. I responded “Don’t pull ahead of me, please”. Their response? “Then pull like a man.” I explained I’m not a tank main and going at a pace I’m comfortable with and to not be a dick. They responded “Don’t make me laugh”.
The last boss they and the rest of the team died to failed mechanics but I managed to solo the boss from about 40%. It felt good, but my mood’s been soured from this toxic DPS. Is their behavior reportable? If not, how do you tank mains go about dealing with it?

I have had that issue. At this point you need to let him die. I respectfully as a tank ask if they pull some sort of mob run up to me as a tank and let me AOE the mob. Its simple. If you want to run ahead and pull thats up to you but if your DPS or a Healer and want to bring a mob to me then great unless it causes the entire party to wipe.