The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

[EaraGrace]

It's not worth wasting your breath. They throw out phrases deliberately in the hope of instigating an angry reaction, and then retreat back to the position of 'Well, let's all be reasonable now' when they get it. It's so easy to predict the pattern of posts that it's gotten boring. You can literally copy and paste what Theo's response to you will be at this point. The best solution to dealing with trolls is agree to ignore. Don't give them the time of day.

And does it really matter what anyone says about the writing at this point? A lot of people clearly liked it. If they're still talking about the story three months later then it's clearly had an effect on them. There's nothing objective about judging writing quality, and some people are always going to get salty when the story events happen in a way that they don't want. It is what it is. C'est la vie.

It sucks that this is what it’s come to, but you’re right. The Sundering sundered the lore forum in true ironic fashion.

[Cleretic]

Hythlodaeus wants to come back to see us again some day, and since it's been pretty much confirmed that the lifestream has issues with wiping memories from such aetherically dense beings, there is a good chance he will return with all memories intact, and if hre talks Emet into coming back, it is likely that Elidibus will wish to be reborn. Mitron and Loghriff are more complicated cases, as they were sundered, but Mitron states he wants to find Loghriff again "in another life", so there is that.

I don't know enough about Lahabrea's wishes when he's not insane to speak on what he would want once healed by the Lifestream.

To clarify, when I'm saying 'don't want to come back' I mean 'in their current contiguous consciousness'. All the people I mention in the first list have basically come to terms with the fact that's going to happen (except for Venat, which I'm still not really comfortable with, but even she seems okay with her fate), while Lahabrea clearly isn't a fan of it.

[Lurina]

Never stopped anyone before. I doubt there’s a single person involved in this convo who still believes we can reach agreement.

To be honest, I don't go to official forums because I want to discuss stuff with other fans - obviously that does happen, but I'm not under any illusions about it being a productive thing to do. Busy online boards are actively hostile environments in regards to disagreeing in a healthy way; text doesn't carry tone and intent easily, and when there are so many people talking over each other, it becomes impossible to clarify oneself or establish a rapport.

I only come to an official forum when I feel strongly enough about something that I want those feelings to be carried to the creators (since there's no feedback email address, lol) in the hope that they'll respond in some way going forward. Creative people are generally most influenced by, rather than the simple majority, the people who are most passionate and willing to talk about their work, so long as that talking is in broadly good faith. I've loved large amounts of FFXIV's story, and that's what makes me want to clarify my feelings and the breadth of my discomfort with parts of EW in the hopes that maybe they'll get it where I'm coming from and change course a tiny bit.

Yoshi-P has spoken about how the writing team reads even the English feedback here in the past and that said feedback does influence their choices, so in book, it's good for these threads to stay active and create a better shot at them actually seeing it. Though honestly, people with an opposing opinions are basically bystanders in this context; I wish there was a way I could express my opinion in a manner the writers might see without the pretext of a debate, though I do respect most people with contrary opinions as individuals. As least as much as you can respect a faceless person who you only know through their perspective on RPG plot points.

I can't speak for everyone, though.

[Lyth]

Personally, I'm glad that the writing team is continuing to write the stories that they want to write. There will always be a vocal minority of fans who will try to put pressure on them for various reasons. It's a tough position to be in because you can't really respond even to gross misinterpretations of your work without making an 'official' statement. The Q+A responded rather elegantly to this in a non-confrontational way, and I'm glad that the livestream community response was very supportive.

[Lurina]

Personally, I'm glad that the writing team is continuing to write the stories that they want to write. There will always be a vocal minority of fans who will try to put pressure on them for various reasons. It's a tough position to be in because you can't really respond even to gross misinterpretations of your work without making an 'official' statement. The Q+A responded rather elegantly to this in a non-confrontational way, and I'm glad that the livestream community response was very supportive.

Responding to a creative work isn't pressure. It's not like I'm demanding that they change the story with some ME3-ending style petition. They can hear my response to it and do whatever they want.

That said, all creator/fan relationships go both ways to some extent, and it's because the scenario team has expressed that they always strive to please people who love the story and not leave anyone feeling burned or left behind in the past that I'm posting to begin with. If this was a Blizzard situation where they obviously didn't give a hoot, I wouldn't.

[Absimiliard]

[LIST][*]Lahabrea

Can he even come back at this point? Dude got gobbled up by a nascent primal. Seems like he might've been destroyed outright by that, given all we know now.

[Cleretic]

Personally, I'm glad that the writing team is continuing to write the stories that they want to write. There will always be a vocal minority of fans who will try to put pressure on them for various reasons. It's a tough position to be in because you can't really respond even to gross misinterpretations of your work without making an 'official' statement. The Q+A responded rather elegantly to this in a non-confrontational way, and I'm glad that the livestream community response was very supportive.

Yeah, the reason I care about the setting is because they care, and even if my attention is clearly focused differently to them (please do a real Gelmorra story, guys, I'm begging you) I love that they're putting as much thought into all of it as I will, if not more.

Which was also part of why I was immediately on board with the conflict and the moral ambiguity they were pitching. I could immediately trust that they weren't being lazy or callous about it, and that they were doing it because they wanted to tell it, so I was willing to go long for the catch, while I can think of rather a few other games that've completely lost me by doing something that makes me go 'you don't care, I don't either'.

Can he even come back at this point? Dude got gobbled up by a nascent primal. Seems like he might've been destroyed outright by that, given all we know now.

My verdict on this has always been 'no', because... well, he got sucked into the Eye of Nidhogg by Thordan, who then used it to summon the rest of the Knights Twelve. After that the Eye was used by Ilberd to summon Shinryu, and then destroyed by Estinien, so... yeah, he's probably not coming back as Lahabrea, no matter how much he wants to. Whether his soul survived to be cleaned and recycled into the Lifestream, who can say, but if anyone besides Venat is a 'no' to that question it's probably him.

[Lyth]

There were questions put out in the Q+A asking that we be able to go back and forcibly change the events of the story by time travel, or demanding to change around the writing team. There were also some fairly nasty things said in Twitch chat by the usual genocide consent posters. The people making this game are human beings, and they're going to have an emotional response to the vitriol, even if they have to be professional about it. What warmed my heart was the sight of hundreds of people spontaneously cooperating to spam the toxic individuals off the screen. I'm not surprised that they aren't overly keen to write further stories about the Ancients. I wouldn't be.

I think that it's reasonable to express your opinion and leave it at that. But there's a boundary that needs to be set, and unfortunately that needs to happen from a forum moderation standpoint.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I think when youre a writer, you know what controversial topics are. Im sure the devs and writers have seen the kind of talk thats sprouted when they created controversial topics and people like garleans,ascians,ancients and so on. They arent children, theyre adults. I find it interesting people are saying let the writers write what they want when, meanwhile, weve had yoshi p gone on record saying theyve changed story elements or x was affected due to community response and i thinkt hats what some of the other posters here are commenting on. That perhaps in sharing their opinions here the devs and writer will see it and make a decision based on that like they have done in the past.

I think the problem only begins when people cant handle another person's opinion, and instead of just disagreeing with them, they go out of their way to be passive aggressive, mark that persons opinion as nothing more than a troll, or simply trying to gatekeep another persons opinion and saying not to talk to them, something that is very much a reportable offense by the way. People in this community need to learn common respect and decency, if you see yourself getting too heated step away. No need to be petty and resort to passive aggressive attacks over fictional characters some people may like. And my biases aside, the fact that people on both sides of the debate have been able to in some cases and parts of the story, acknowledge x was a writing mistake leads me to believe there were major objective flaws in the story this expansion. I dont remember shadowbringers being quite divisive like this at all.

On a side note, regarding this anyhow, i think the fact they needed to answer so many vital story questions in a QnA is...a good example of some of the things that this expansion missed the mark on. A lot of the story was very unclear considering how much it left many people confused about very important aspects of the story that shouldve had more emphasis.

[redheadturk]

To clarify, when I'm saying 'don't want to come back' I mean 'in their current contiguous consciousness'. All the people I mention in the first list have basically come to terms with the fact that's going to happen (except for Venat, which I'm still not really comfortable with, but even she seems okay with her fate), while Lahabrea clearly isn't a fan of it.

I point out though that all of the Unsundered ancients are quite likely to return with memories intact due to them being aetherically dense enough for the lifestream not to strip their memories and consciousness, so "continguous consciousness" is likely to remain upon reincarnation. Hythlodaeus and Emet Selch are clear proof of the fact that the Unsundered retain consciousness and coherence within the Lifestream.