The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

[Lauront]

Indeed, when they could just use the ignore function and be done with it...

[Skyborne]

The elementals come off more as petulant children than any sort of proper guardians. They are fickle to a point that it seems like it makes them impossible to please. All it takes is one minor misstep for them to decide to ruin your life -- or, as we see from a few different quests, simply decide to kill you.

It was kind of funny learning the origin of the elementals. They're essentially malfunctioning familiars... thanks, Bahamut, for knocking them down a peg, though honestly the Gridanians should finish the job. Keep the ones on Val around, at least those ones are nice and give us juicy buffs.

[EaraGrace]

Don't you think it's a little self-contradictory to regularly post in EW discourse threads about how pointless and unworthy of attention the discourse is?

Never stopped anyone before. I doubt there’s a single person involved in this convo who still believes we can reach agreement.

[Theodric]

Never stopped anyone before. I doubt there’s a single person involved in this convo who still believes we can reach agreement.

I've consistently been suggesting that we all simply agree to disagree on many fronts for years. I've seen others suggest the very same approach.

Another issue is that it doesn't really matter what the subject is at any given point. I've seen all sorts of different threads turn into discussions about 'classism', 'colonialism' and all sorts of other heavy issues.

I'm not saying that people can't discuss such issues, but if they're prepared to do as much then I do think they shouldn't be surprised if the elements of the setting that they, themselves, enjoy is subjected to the same treatment.

[Erendis]

The Ancients are dead and they don't wanna come back.

And how many ancients did you hear that from? One.

[KageTokage]

Considering that discontent souls are known to be capable of manifesting aetherial phenomena like ghosts, I can't help but wonder if having all those powerful, but grief-stricken Ancient souls trying to go through the Lifestream wringer simultaneously isn't going to cause problems.

[Cleretic]

And how many ancients did you hear that from? One.

Actually, we heard from... rather a few of them. And by my count, the ones that didn't want to come back, or at least seemed to make peace with the fact that wasn't happening...

• Emet-Selch
• Mitron
• Loghrif (sort of, that one's complicated)
• Elidibus
• Fandaniel (in all identities)
• Hythlodaeus
• Most unnamed Zodiark sacrifices
• Venat

Meanwhile, the ones that either did want to come back, or died mad enough that they're presumably not done...

• Lahabrea
• Igeyorhm, maybe, we didn't exactly give her time to contemplate it
• A minority of the Zodiark sacrifices

Granted, the list is biased towards those who lived through the Sundering and the millennia afterwards, and so were probably a bit tired. But I can find very few Ancients that weren't fairly accepting of their deaths, albeit in extreme circumstances.

Considering that discontent souls are known to be capable of manifesting aetherial phenomena like ghosts, I can't help but wonder if having all those powerful, but grief-stricken Ancient souls trying to go through the Lifestream wringer simultaneously isn't going to cause problems.

...now that you mention it, that might be a problem. Again, most of Zodiark's sacrifices seemed pretty okay with their lot, but even those guys seemed to have some heavy thoughts about what all was going on; there was a lot of 'we did everything right, why didn't it work' anxiety. That's probably gonna hurt even more now that Zodiark is actually gone rather than just in trouble.

[EaraGrace]

I've consistently been suggesting that we all simply agree to disagree on many fronts for years. I've seen others suggest the very same approach.

Another issue is that it doesn't really matter what the subject is at any given point. I've seen all sorts of different threads turn into discussions about 'classism', 'colonialism' and all sorts of other heavy issues.

I'm not saying that people can't discuss such issues, but if they're prepared to do as much then I do think they shouldn't be surprised if the elements of the setting that they, themselves, enjoy is subjected to the same treatment.

Indeed, a game with heavy themes should include discussion of heavy concepts. I just don’t see the value in calling a character a “mentally ill psychopath” or comparing the writing to fast food, or making people out as “Venat stans/simps,” or accusing someone of being a victim blamer. Those aren’t necessary nor do those actually belong in discussion. And yet, mockery of that nature is common here and in other threads.

And no, stating that people are nazis for their views elsewhere was not right, just so we can get that particular response out of the way.

And if we are to agree to disagree, people need to stop making threads where they act as if they have made objective judgements of what the writing says or it’s quality. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.

[redheadturk]

Actually, we heard from... rather a few of them. And by my count, the ones that didn't want to come back, or at least seemed to make peace with the fact that wasn't happening...

• Emet-Selch
• Mitron
• Loghrif (sort of, that one's complicated)
• Elidibus
• Fandaniel (in all identities)
• Hythlodaeus
• Most unnamed Zodiark sacrifices
• Venat

Meanwhile, the ones that either did want to come back, or died mad enough that they're presumably not done...

• Lahabrea
• Igeyorhm, maybe, we didn't exactly give her time to contemplate it
• A minority of the Zodiark sacrifices

Granted, the list is biased towards those who lived through the Sundering and the millennia afterwards, and so were probably a bit tired. But I can find very few Ancients that weren't fairly accepting of their deaths, albeit in extreme circumstances.



...now that you mention it, that might be a problem. Again, most of Zodiark's sacrifices seemed pretty okay with their lot, but even those guys seemed to have some heavy thoughts about what all was going on; there was a lot of 'we did everything right, why didn't it work' anxiety. That's probably gonna hurt even more now that Zodiark is actually gone rather than just in trouble.

Hythlodaeus wants to come back to see us again some day, and since it's been pretty much confirmed that the lifestream has issues with wiping memories from such aetherically dense beings, there is a good chance he will return with all memories intact, and if hre talks Emet into coming back, it is likely that Elidibus will wish to be reborn. Mitron and Loghriff are more complicated cases, as they were sundered, but Mitron states he wants to find Loghriff again "in another life", so there is that.

I don't know enough about Lahabrea's wishes when he's not insane to speak on what he would want once healed by the Lifestream.

[Lyth]

The reason why Amon remembers Hermes' time on Elpis so vividly is because of shenanigans with Kyrios. I think that Hyth's point is moreso that you might run into each other again, except as different people in a different context. Any first meeting might be a new old friend, and the two of you would never be the wiser for it. It's the sort of sentimental thing that he'd say.

...

It's not worth wasting your breath. They throw out phrases deliberately in the hope of instigating an angry reaction, and then retreat back to the position of 'Well, let's all be reasonable now' when they get it. It's so easy to predict the pattern of posts that it's gotten boring. You can literally copy and paste what Theo's response to you will be at this point. The best solution to dealing with trolls is agree to ignore. Don't give them the time of day.

And does it really matter what anyone says about the writing at this point? A lot of people clearly liked it. If they're still talking about the story three months later then it's clearly had an effect on them. There's nothing objective about judging writing quality, and some people are always going to get salty when the story events happen in a way that they don't want. It is what it is. C'est la vie.

And how many ancients did you hear that from? One.

I wouldn't call Yoshi-p an Ancient, he's still relatively young by modern standards. Jokes aside, the Q+A concluded that the Ancients didn't have a reason to want to come back anymore, since their underlying issues had been resolved with this story arc. I'm sure that Emet/Hyth will make a couple of cameos again eventually. They might as well be Yoshi-p and Foxclon at this point, given the mini-Live Letter that they gave at the end of the MSQ.