The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

[EaraGrace]

Don't you think it's a little self-contradictory to regularly post in EW discourse threads about how pointless and unworthy of attention the discourse is?

Never stopped anyone before. I doubt there’s a single person involved in this convo who still believes we can reach agreement.

[Theodric]

Never stopped anyone before. I doubt there’s a single person involved in this convo who still believes we can reach agreement.

I've consistently been suggesting that we all simply agree to disagree on many fronts for years. I've seen others suggest the very same approach.

Another issue is that it doesn't really matter what the subject is at any given point. I've seen all sorts of different threads turn into discussions about 'classism', 'colonialism' and all sorts of other heavy issues.

I'm not saying that people can't discuss such issues, but if they're prepared to do as much then I do think they shouldn't be surprised if the elements of the setting that they, themselves, enjoy is subjected to the same treatment.

[EaraGrace]

I've consistently been suggesting that we all simply agree to disagree on many fronts for years. I've seen others suggest the very same approach.

Another issue is that it doesn't really matter what the subject is at any given point. I've seen all sorts of different threads turn into discussions about 'classism', 'colonialism' and all sorts of other heavy issues.

I'm not saying that people can't discuss such issues, but if they're prepared to do as much then I do think they shouldn't be surprised if the elements of the setting that they, themselves, enjoy is subjected to the same treatment.

Indeed, a game with heavy themes should include discussion of heavy concepts. I just don’t see the value in calling a character a “mentally ill psychopath” or comparing the writing to fast food, or making people out as “Venat stans/simps,” or accusing someone of being a victim blamer. Those aren’t necessary nor do those actually belong in discussion. And yet, mockery of that nature is common here and in other threads.

And no, stating that people are nazis for their views elsewhere was not right, just so we can get that particular response out of the way.

And if we are to agree to disagree, people need to stop making threads where they act as if they have made objective judgements of what the writing says or it’s quality. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.

[Lyth]

The reason why Amon remembers Hermes' time on Elpis so vividly is because of shenanigans with Kyrios. I think that Hyth's point is moreso that you might run into each other again, except as different people in a different context. Any first meeting might be a new old friend, and the two of you would never be the wiser for it. It's the sort of sentimental thing that he'd say.

...

It's not worth wasting your breath. They throw out phrases deliberately in the hope of instigating an angry reaction, and then retreat back to the position of 'Well, let's all be reasonable now' when they get it. It's so easy to predict the pattern of posts that it's gotten boring. You can literally copy and paste what Theo's response to you will be at this point. The best solution to dealing with trolls is agree to ignore. Don't give them the time of day.

And does it really matter what anyone says about the writing at this point? A lot of people clearly liked it. If they're still talking about the story three months later then it's clearly had an effect on them. There's nothing objective about judging writing quality, and some people are always going to get salty when the story events happen in a way that they don't want. It is what it is. C'est la vie.

And how many ancients did you hear that from? One.

I wouldn't call Yoshi-p an Ancient, he's still relatively young by modern standards. Jokes aside, the Q+A concluded that the Ancients didn't have a reason to want to come back anymore, since their underlying issues had been resolved with this story arc. I'm sure that Emet/Hyth will make a couple of cameos again eventually. They might as well be Yoshi-p and Foxclon at this point, given the mini-Live Letter that they gave at the end of the MSQ.

[EaraGrace]

It's not worth wasting your breath. They throw out phrases deliberately in the hope of instigating an angry reaction, and then retreat back to the position of 'Well, let's all be reasonable now' when they get it. It's so easy to predict the pattern of posts that it's gotten boring. You can literally copy and paste what Theo's response to you will be at this point. The best solution to dealing with trolls is agree to ignore. Don't give them the time of day.

And does it really matter what anyone says about the writing at this point? A lot of people clearly liked it. If they're still talking about the story three months later then it's clearly had an effect on them. There's nothing objective about judging writing quality, and some people are always going to get salty when the story events happen in a way that they don't want. It is what it is. C'est la vie.

It sucks that this is what it’s come to, but you’re right. The Sundering sundered the lore forum in true ironic fashion.

[Lurina]

Never stopped anyone before. I doubt there’s a single person involved in this convo who still believes we can reach agreement.

To be honest, I don't go to official forums because I want to discuss stuff with other fans - obviously that does happen, but I'm not under any illusions about it being a productive thing to do. Busy online boards are actively hostile environments in regards to disagreeing in a healthy way; text doesn't carry tone and intent easily, and when there are so many people talking over each other, it becomes impossible to clarify oneself or establish a rapport.

I only come to an official forum when I feel strongly enough about something that I want those feelings to be carried to the creators (since there's no feedback email address, lol) in the hope that they'll respond in some way going forward. Creative people are generally most influenced by, rather than the simple majority, the people who are most passionate and willing to talk about their work, so long as that talking is in broadly good faith. I've loved large amounts of FFXIV's story, and that's what makes me want to clarify my feelings and the breadth of my discomfort with parts of EW in the hopes that maybe they'll get it where I'm coming from and change course a tiny bit.

Yoshi-P has spoken about how the writing team reads even the English feedback here in the past and that said feedback does influence their choices, so in book, it's good for these threads to stay active and create a better shot at them actually seeing it. Though honestly, people with an opposing opinions are basically bystanders in this context; I wish there was a way I could express my opinion in a manner the writers might see without the pretext of a debate, though I do respect most people with contrary opinions as individuals. As least as much as you can respect a faceless person who you only know through their perspective on RPG plot points.

I can't speak for everyone, though.

[Theodric]

To be honest, I don't go to official forums because I want to discuss stuff with other fans - obviously that does happen, but I'm not under any illusions about it being a productive thing to do. Busy online boards are actively hostile environments in regards to disagreeing in a healthy way; text doesn't carry tone and intent easily, and when there are so many people talking over each other, it becomes impossible to clarify oneself or establish a rapport.

I only come to an official forum when I feel strongly enough about something that I want those feelings to be carried to the creators (since there's no feedback email address, lol) in the hope that they'll respond in some way going forward. Creative people are generally most influenced by, rather than the simple majority, the people who are most passionate and willing to talk about their work, so long as that talking is in broadly good faith. I've loved large amounts of FFXIV's story, and that's what makes me want to clarify my feelings and the breadth of my discomfort with parts of EW in the hopes that maybe they'll get it where I'm coming from and change course a tiny bit.

Yoshi-P has spoken about how the writing team reads even the English feedback here in the past and that said feedback does influence their choices, so in book, it's good for these threads to stay active and create a better shot at them actually seeing it. Though honestly, people with an opposing opinions are basically bystanders in this context; I wish there was a way I could express my opinion in a manner the writers might see without the pretext of a debate, though I do respect most people with contrary opinions as individuals. As least as much as you can respect a faceless person who you only know through their perspective on RPG plot points.

I can't speak for everyone, though.

I take the same approach. I come here to weigh in the story as it advances, share my theories and provide feedback. The development team can do whatever they like with that - but I like putting forward information about what I enjoy and what I'd like to see more of.

The endless arguments are tiring, though I've never shifted from my default stance of suggesting to agree to disagree on pretty much any issue.

If that leads to me or anyone else living rent-free in the heads of those who feel compelled to wish death on someone over preferences in a video game? Meh.

[Absimiliard]

I honestly lost track of the number of times I was told to cease my own life functions back during the "not all Garleans deserve to die" debates. The same thing has happened over the current topic twice in just the last few days.

[Theodric]

I honestly lost track of the number of times I was told to cease my own life functions back during the "not all Garleans deserve to die" debates. The same thing has happened over the current topic twice in just the last few days.

It's pretty weird, isn't it?

I don't know why some people can't separate the 'fantasy' from the 'reality' but it is what it is, I suppose. Final Fantasy XII is my favourite main title so the various Legatus having very similar attire to the Judges in FFXII is a major point in Garlemald's favour. The Roman and Russian influence is another huge point in their favour to me as well. There's a lot of influence across much of Europe where the Romans are concerned. Be it architectural designs, cultural trends and even preserved ruins. As for the Russians? I think they have a very interesting culture and history. I've met a fair few Russian players in game who are fond of Garlemald too, on that note.