"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Sigiria]

I just wanna casually remind everyone refusing to perform your role at all because you dislike somebody in your group is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy.

Defending YPYT is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

So is pulling when you don't have the ability to handle these enemies and your tank might not be ready for it, resulting in a wipe and effectively griefing the other players in your party.
Perspectives.

[Ath192]

I just wanna casually remind everyone refusing to perform your role at all because you dislike somebody in your group is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy.

Defending YPYT is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

This thread is still going lol. But sure, why not go in circles, may as well.

I just wanna casually remind everyone pulling as a DPS is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy. It overburdens the healers when the appropriate person pulling should be the tank.

Defending DPS pulling is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

[aveyond-dreams]

This thread is still going lol. But sure, why not go in circles, may as well.

I just wanna casually remind everyone pulling as a DPS is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy. It overburdens the healers when the appropriate person pulling should be the tank.

Defending DPS pulling is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

If a dps pulling an extra pack for a tank that is single pulling overwhelms a healer-that is indicative of a healer who does not know how to utilize the full extent of their kit and they have no business being carried by other people beyond level 50 content. If you want to go slow, trusts will be made an option for nearly all dungeon content. Use them.

[Saraide]

So is pulling when you don't have the ability to handle these enemies and your tank might not be ready for it, resulting in a wipe and effectively griefing the other players in your party.
Perspectives.

This may sound obvious to some but the difference here is intent. A dps pulling doesnt mean they intend for the party to wipe they just want to do more damage (more targets to hit = more damage = dps doing their job better), a YPYT is intending to kill someone from the party which then can far more easily lead to a wipe.

[Sigiria]

This may sound obvious to some but the difference here is intent. A dps pulling doesnt mean they intend for the party to wipe they just want to do more damage (more targets to hit = more damage = dps doing their job better), a YPYT is intending to kill someone from the party which then can far more easily lead to a wipe.

Imo it's all in the context. Going out of your way to pull more without making sure if the other people in the party are comfortable with it might just result in a wipe and ironically extend the time the duty would have otherwise taken.

As an example I had a Vanaspati run where the tank wasn't confident about their ability to double pull. Healer wasn't great and the first double pull was very shaky, the other dps wasn't great either considering I was doing 70% of the party damage as BRD. But they still insisted on wanting to do double pulls, healer rushing to grab the second pack of mobs and dying before they could get back to the tank that did try to take the mobs off them when they noticed. We ended up doing that pull 4 times and moved on only because we managed to nuke one mob each pull. Dungeon ended up taking 10 more minutes than it could have.

I like a smooth run with wall to wall pull too but if the tank or the healer are not confident in their abilities then just silently choosing for them to deal with more than they can handle won't help anyone and will just make things worse for the whole party and can just as much be considered griefing.

On the other end of the spectrum you've got the tanks that go ballistic with the "you pull you tank" anytime someone accidentally pull something even when they apologize, and yeah that can also be a pretty toxic behavior.
It all lean on people being at least semi-decent human being with basic communication skills.

[Saraide]

Imo it's all in the context. Going out of your way to pull more without making sure if the other people in the party are comfortable with it might just result in a wipe and ironically extend the time the duty would have otherwise taken.

As an example I had a Vanaspati run where the tank wasn't confident about their ability to double pull. Healer wasn't great and the first double pull was very shaky, the other dps wasn't great either considering I was doing 70% of the party damage as BRD. But they still insisted on wanting to do double pulls, healer rushing to grab the second pack of mobs and dying before they could get back to the tank that did try to take the mobs off them when they noticed. We ended up doing that pull 4 times and moved on only because we managed to nuke one mob each pull. Dungeon ended up taking 10 more minutes than it could have.

I like a smooth run with wall to wall pull too but if the tank or the healer are not confident in their abilities then just silently choosing for them to deal with more than they can handle won't help anyone and will just make things worse for the whole party and can just as much be considered griefing.

On the other end of the spectrum you've got the tanks that go ballistic with the "you pull you tank" anytime someone accidentally pull something even when they apologize, and yeah that can also be a pretty toxic behavior.
It all lean on people being at least semi-decent human being with basic communication skills.

Your example is an unfortunate one but doesnt really spell out that anyone intended to hold other people back when overconfidence and internally blaming wipes on the mistakes of others are very likely explanations. Contrary to popular believe, overconfidence is a fast and hilarious killer. A YPYT however is directly admitting to wanting to kill their ally/allies. There isnt really a both sides argument to be made here, not without heavily moving goalposts.

[Sigiria]

Your example is an unfortunate one but doesnt really spell out that anyone intended to hold other people back when overconfidence and internally blaming wipes on the mistakes of others are very likely explanations. Contrary to popular believe, overconfidence is a fast and hilarious killer. A YPYT however is directly admitting to wanting to kill their ally/allies. There isnt really a both sides argument to be made here, not without heavily moving goalposts.

Exept the tank don't kill the player in a scenario where a player go out of their way to pull a pack of mobs without talking it out with the tank before hand, expecting the tank to deal with a situation they didn't agree to and save the one that pulled from the monsters they themself went out of their way to pull.
Ultimately the one that pull create the situation and end up getting themself killed.

Is it immature and petty to say "you pull you tank"? yeah, sure. But so is silently pulling more thinking "Nah, they'll tank the way I want them to"
Which was the point I was initially making, both can be seen as a breach of ToS regarding griefing.
How hard it is to just talk it out?

[Ath192]

If a dps pulling an extra pack for a tank that is single pulling overwhelms a healer-that is indicative of a healer who does not know how to utilize the full extent of their kit and they have no business being carried by other people beyond level 50 content. If you want to go slow, trusts will be made an option for nearly all dungeon content. Use them.

Nah instead just report the DPS for aiding the enemy/griefing and call it good. Literally same selfish mentality as YPYT.

[Saraide]

Exept the tank don't kill the player in a scenario where a player go out of their way to pull a pack of mobs without talking it out with the tank before hand, expecting the tank to deal with a situation they didn't agree to and save the one that pulled from the monsters they themself went out of their way to pull.
Ultimately the one that pull create the situation and end up getting themself killed.

Is it immature and petty to say "you pull you tank"? yeah, sure. But so is silently pulling more thinking "Nah, they'll tank the way I want them to"
Which was the point I was initially making, both can be seen as a breach of ToS regarding griefing.
How hard it is to just talk it out?

We specifically need to construct a situation to make the dps that pulled be the bad guy and at that point we are heavily moving the goalpost from where we started in this thread, that's a different conversation at that point. Sure, I question someone's sanity if they somehow get aggro on a mob in a trash pull and then dont stack up with me as a tank. But when dragged back into the tank's aoes, it is impossible to not get aggro as tank unless you specifically go out of your way to try and kill that dps by dropping stance or switching to single target.

[Padudu]

Nah instead just report the DPS for aiding the enemy/griefing and call it good. Literally same selfish mentality as YPYT.

Lmao I'm pretty sure most DPS pull with the intention of doing more damage and getting a move on unlike YPYT where your small soyboy energy is just intentionally letting people die because you can't handle not being the leader for 5 minutes