"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Ath192]

I just wanna casually remind everyone refusing to perform your role at all because you dislike somebody in your group is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy.

Defending YPYT is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

This thread is still going lol. But sure, why not go in circles, may as well.

I just wanna casually remind everyone pulling as a DPS is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy. It overburdens the healers when the appropriate person pulling should be the tank.

Defending DPS pulling is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

[aveyond-dreams]

This thread is still going lol. But sure, why not go in circles, may as well.

I just wanna casually remind everyone pulling as a DPS is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy. It overburdens the healers when the appropriate person pulling should be the tank.

Defending DPS pulling is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

If a dps pulling an extra pack for a tank that is single pulling overwhelms a healer-that is indicative of a healer who does not know how to utilize the full extent of their kit and they have no business being carried by other people beyond level 50 content. If you want to go slow, trusts will be made an option for nearly all dungeon content. Use them.

[Ath192]

If a dps pulling an extra pack for a tank that is single pulling overwhelms a healer-that is indicative of a healer who does not know how to utilize the full extent of their kit and they have no business being carried by other people beyond level 50 content. If you want to go slow, trusts will be made an option for nearly all dungeon content. Use them.

Nah instead just report the DPS for aiding the enemy/griefing and call it good. Literally same selfish mentality as YPYT.

[Padudu]

Nah instead just report the DPS for aiding the enemy/griefing and call it good. Literally same selfish mentality as YPYT.

Lmao I'm pretty sure most DPS pull with the intention of doing more damage and getting a move on unlike YPYT where your small soyboy energy is just intentionally letting people die because you can't handle not being the leader for 5 minutes

[Ath192]

Lmao I'm pretty sure most DPS pull with the intention of doing more damage and getting a move on unlike YPYT where your small soyboy energy is just intentionally letting people die because you can't handle not being the leader for 5 minutes

Sorry but starting anything with "I'm pretty sure" is nothing but bias here. Just like "I'm pretty sure" that some DPS are completely selfish rude people that will pull ahead because they want to get out asap and bully the tank into scrambling to grab aggro. And if he dares to fail they'll shame him nonstop. Those aren't good people sorry to burst the bubble.

[Padudu]

Sorry but starting anything with "I'm pretty sure" is nothing but bias here. Just like "I'm pretty sure" that some DPS are completely selfish rude people that will pull ahead because they want to get out asap and bully the tank into scrambling to grab aggro. And if he dares to fail they'll shame him nonstop. Those aren't good people sorry to burst the bubble.

LMAO implying you're speaking objectively at all

Dude I don't main DPS I just use common sense and my own experience with most dpses that pull ahead of me. I've never felt like bullied by a DPS to go forward lmfao and hey in general most people are actually alright when you don't antagonize them the moment you que with them into a dungeon tbh fam

[Ath192]

LMAO implying you're speaking objectively at all

Dude I don't main DPS I just use common sense and my own experience with most dpses that pull ahead of me. I've never felt like bullied by a DPS to go forward lmfao and hey in general most people are actually alright when you don't antagonize them the moment you que with them into a dungeon tbh fam

I'm not, nor did I ever claim I was, there's a reason I quoted specific phrases in my response, but I see you had trouble understanding them.

Personally I've seen both. A benign pull ahead and a this is gonna be the way it is pull ahead, with shaming following afterwards.

Now here is a compelling a playstyle citation from the TOS:

It is prohibited to force personal views or disregard the opinions of others. If a report has been filed and the prohibited activity is confirmed, a penalty will be issued.

It is prohibited to make statements such as:
"There's no way we can clear this with [suggestion]."
"Big pulls are normal here, so do it!"
"I don't care what you think, just follow my instructions."
"I'm not asking for your opinion."

Please note that Square Enix may issue a penalty in its discretion even if a report has not been filed but the act was found being conducted in public areas such as Say and Shout, search comments, Party Finder, and online video or streaming services.

************

Getting that out of the way, if we use logic and common sense:
1. The Tank has both a ranged attack and an AOE attack that can be paired with their enmity generation skill
2. The Tank has the best defense and cool downs to deal with mobs
3. The DPS have poor tools equipped to deal with the monsters they pull

So in any given situation the person that commits the first offense will always be the DPS, since they are doing something out of the ordinary, pulling for the tank.

The tank can react in two ways:
1. Be offended about it and put up an attitude
2. Be the bigger person and chug along

Now, noone likes a tank with a bad attitude, this is true. However, the actual culprit, or instigator of the situation is the DPS. So they are not off the hook for causing a situation that didn't need to happen to begin with. It is not acceptable behavior and at best people dont care because they are chill.

But I certainly haven't met any tank or group for that matter in my life that goes in to the dungeon "hoping" the DPS pulls for them. The best case scenario is noone cares.

[Jijifli]

So is pulling when you don't have the ability to handle these enemies and your tank might not be ready for it, resulting in a wipe and effectively griefing the other players in your party.
Perspectives.

This thread is still going lol. But sure, why not go in circles, may as well.

I just wanna casually remind everyone pulling as a DPS is quite literally a ToS violation example under Aiding The Enemy. It overburdens the healers when the appropriate person pulling should be the tank.

Defending DPS pulling is literally going against the ToS, and Yoshida. So many people praise his words like he's a god until they suddenly don't align with their desire.

For the sake of it, I will now quote every example under Aiding the Enemy.

-
For example, the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy (or the opposing team/players in PvP content):

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."
"I don't think we can clear this anyway, so I'll just get hit by the enemy attack and go AFK after I'm knocked out."
"I'm going to join the opposing team as a healer and do nothing so my friends on the other team can win the PvP content."
-

So, now that we have the examples, and you're free to fact check them, let's consider a common trend in here.
"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group." This is refusing to participate at all. Would you argue that, at minimum, the DPS is at least participating in the situation, while at the same time, would you not argue that the tank sitting down isn't participating? We can even quote about conditions of failure if a wipe happens "Each player has a different level of skill, and in some cases, there may be a situation where the duty/content will fail. From the perspective of a skilled player in such a situation, a less skilled player may appear to be "adversarial/uncooperative/apathetic," but even if this is the case, it is not a violation as long as the player is playing appropriately."

"I don't think we can clear this anyway, so I'll just get hit by the enemy attack and go AFK after I'm knocked out." So, if the argument is you think that pull will cause a wipe, so you sit and confirm it into a wipe, is this not the written example?

"I'm going to join the opposing team as a healer and do nothing so my friends on the other team can win the PvP content." This one has trouble applying at all, given it's a pvp example, but still an example, and I can't seem to join the enemy AI's side.

This, is the problem though. You'll notice a very specific trend under Aiding The Enemy examples, even the PvP one. Refusal to participate. Even if you hate, absolutely hate that dps somehow running ahead of a job with multiple gap closing abilities (which, oddly, never happens to me, but let's ignore that), they are at the very least still doing something. You might disagree, and you might not be up to the specified task at hand, but he is at least participating and trying. When the tank or healer sits down afterword, throws a huge hissy fit about how they wanna tank (which, nobody has stopped their ability to tank, except themself), and refuses to play at all, that is literally 2 of the 3 examples written down.

And, if you dislike it enough, vote kick them. Difference in playstyle is still a legit kick reasoning, even if not personally listed. But at least try to pick the stuff up when it happens, because at least then, you can say you participated, rather than punish everyone else because you disliked one guy.

[Sigiria]

This, is the problem though. You'll notice a very specific trend under Aiding The Enemy examples, even the PvP one. Refusal to participate. Even if you hate, absolutely hate that dps somehow running ahead of a job with multiple gap closing abilities (which, oddly, never happens to me, but let's ignore that), they are at the very least still doing something. You might disagree, and you might not be up to the specified task at hand, but he is at least participating and trying. When the tank or healer sits down afterword, throws a huge hissy fit about how they wanna tank (which, nobody has stopped their ability to tank, except themself), and refuses to play at all, that is literally 2 of the 3 examples written down.

But the tank is not refusing to play if they're actively pulling and tanking what they believe they can handle neither did they create a situation in which a player would get killed. The person that pulled more did.
And this "throws a huge hissy fit about how they wanna tank (which, nobody has stopped their ability to tank, except themself)" can very much be this as well "throws a huge hissy fit about how they wanna dps (which, nobody has stopped their ability to dps on the current pack or made them pull more, except themself)"

[Jijifli]

But the tank is not refusing to play if they're actively pulling and tanking what they believe they can handle neither did they create a situation in which a player would get killed. The person that pulled more did.
And this "throws a huge hissy fit about how they wanna tank (which, nobody has stopped their ability to tank, except themself)" can very much be this as well "throws a huge hissy fit about how they wanna dps (which, nobody has stopped their ability to dps on the current pack or made them pull more, except themself)"

Okay, so I just really really wanna make sure I'm understanding correct what you're trying to say.

If I, as a tank, decided during a fight to put my weapon away, and stand there, doing absolutely nothing at all, you say that's not refusing to play? Can I ask what he is doing?

And on that, your swing of "how they wanna dps" is strange to use, considering the one in question is still, in fact, doing dps. He has not stopped. So, can you clarify what you mean? Because it sounds like you're saying actively pressing button = not playing, and actively doing nothing = playing. Which, I know Limsa sounds nice, but... We're not in limsa.