Ninja's Ninki Generation Problem Leading to Very Awkward Play Feel

[Equitable_Remedy]

Two thoughts:

1) I find it conflicting to both complain that there's not enough to do outside of trick and complain that it's best to hit some bhavas outside of trick. Aesthetically, I don't see why ninki generation needs to result in exactly trick-aligned bhavas; the potency of bhava v. speed of ninki generation and lining up with trick is a separate question (since, for instance, ninki generation could be changed to align bhavas with trick and potency could be adjust to make it DPS-neutral).

2) I strongly disagree that NIN needs more outside of trick. The strength of the class system is exactly that classes can vary along different metrics (for instance, pacing) and players can find the classes that they like most. NIN is a class with high APM in and around trick and low APM outside of trick while having one-minute trick windows. Lots of other DPS classes have smoother APM over the course of their rotations, and I think that the variety is itself valuable to maintain. I'm someone for whom NIN pacing works really well, and homogenizing toward the median APM through the rotation would make the game less fun for me.

[Theihe]

Two thoughts:

1) I find it conflicting to both complain that there's not enough to do outside of trick and complain that it's best to hit some bhavas outside of trick. Aesthetically, I don't see why ninki generation needs to result in exactly trick-aligned bhavas; the potency of bhava v. speed of ninki generation and lining up with trick is a separate question (since, for instance, ninki generation could be changed to align bhavas with trick and potency could be adjust to make it DPS-neutral).

2) I strongly disagree that NIN needs more outside of trick. The strength of the class system is exactly that classes can vary along different metrics (for instance, pacing) and players can find the classes that they like most. NIN is a class with high APM in and around trick and low APM outside of trick while having one-minute trick windows. Lots of other DPS classes have smoother APM over the course of their rotations, and I think that the variety is itself valuable to maintain. I'm someone for whom NIN pacing works really well, and homogenizing toward the median APM through the rotation would make the game less fun for me.

Pretty solid points, these are my two cents as I am in no way shape or form a spokesperson for the entire playerbase yada yada yada.

1)
I personally don't mind that there's a downtime outside of TA where we have to use Bhavas; not entierly atleast. There is an issue with player perception though. "Use X thing under Y and do more dmg, use X thing outside of Y and do less dmg". It feels bad. In ShB NIN's burst was tightly tuned to be exactly as long as it had to be in order for everything to fit under the window (outside of the occassional Bhava you had to spend outside)- but now the burst window is so long that Trick literally cannot catch all of it. And it feels really really bad.
Making it DPS neutral isn't possible due to the way TA functions- although it would be very much ideal.

2)
I agree with this, and it's very well formulated.

[Xenon_S]

Two thoughts:

1) I find it conflicting to both complain that there's not enough to do outside of trick and complain that it's best to hit some bhavas outside of trick. Aesthetically, I don't see why ninki generation needs to result in exactly trick-aligned bhavas; the potency of bhava v. speed of ninki generation and lining up with trick is a separate question (since, for instance, ninki generation could be changed to align bhavas with trick and potency could be adjust to make it DPS-neutral).

2) I strongly disagree that NIN needs more outside of trick. The strength of the class system is exactly that classes can vary along different metrics (for instance, pacing) and players can find the classes that they like most. NIN is a class with high APM in and around trick and low APM outside of trick while having one-minute trick windows. Lots of other DPS classes have smoother APM over the course of their rotations, and I think that the variety is itself valuable to maintain. I'm someone for whom NIN pacing works really well, and homogenizing toward the median APM through the rotation would make the game less fun for me.

Thank you for your response, a few points I would like to clarify.
1. My main issue with ninki generation is that, with AE/AC giving 15, you are punished more if you overcap ninki with AE/AC. In this sense, I perceive hitting Bhavas out of trick as something that I have to do to avoid overcapping ninki, a somewhat negative association, as opposed to simply hitting it for damage.

2. My argument is not that ninja needs more buttons out of trick, but rather that the filler phase is not really engaging. Given how majority of ninja's damage comes from non-GCD abilities, you can effectively AFK during the filler phase, do 1 huraijin and 1 suiton, and the Trick window will be more or less the same minus 1 or 2 Bhavas. I'm also not arguing for ninja APM to be normalized, if anything the root of my complaints is that odd minute Trick windows being too tame.