What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rosenstrauch]

I suppose I'm lucky in that while I've been playing Warcraft since I was a 6 year old girl who thought the Trolls with warpaint and big technicolor mohawks were cool

I mean. They are. I bought Warcraft 2 back when it released from one of those Scholastic catalogues, and I was blown away by how cool the Horde was in general, but especially the Trolls and their leader, Zul'jin. You could write out the entirety of his story on a sticky note, but it worked for me back then and it still does now. Even the part where he eventually became a raid boss in WoW: The Burning Crusade, where the Amani (Forest Trolls) were hit hard with the villain bat and Zuljin was made into a raid boss... it worked for me, because it was entirely in line with who Zuljin and his people were.

This, for me, is more like the rapid downward spiral most WoW characters take once they have any degree of prominence. It's not even a uniform drop in WoW's case, and this drop has been sharper and more painful than any of them. But to rattle off a few names: Tyrande, Vol'jin, Sylvanas, Lor'themar, Varok Saurfang, Thalyssra, Jaina, and Wrathion are all characters I once sincerely enjoyed seeing in the story. They were among my favorites. And invariably, each of them has been run into the ground in ways that defied explanation.

My favorite character in Endwalker? It is—or was—Venat. But from what I'm seeing of the Q&A, I was completely wrong about her character, and everything I did like about her was actually a carefully framed lie on the writers' part, made to convince me she was something other than what they intended all along.

[Lingo56]

I mean, they have been literally doing that since the beginning. A lot of story details dont get explained or show up with relevance until waaaay later. One example I had was back in Heavensward with Unukulhai or however you pronounce his name. After the whole Warring Triad ordeal he sorta just...stayed at the Rising Stones and I was disappointed how it seemed that he wasnt brought up ever again for what I considered an important lore detail concerning the nature of his world. Especially with Shadowbringers's story. It wasnt until post-Shb that he was finally given a reason via an optional side quest and was content to see the game giving him a conclusion. Its obvious that the writers dont necessarily plan out every story bit from start to finish rather they go with "post it" notes in their story details for when they could use it for something later or not. Sometimes even changes within the structure causes for planned bread crumbs to stay in the back burner or go in a different direction (aka SB Hildibrand clearly looked like was set up for him to show up in the First but they decided against it at the last minute). Its just how it is or at least how I see it. Not trying to discredit you for trying to get attached to every lore bit but probably temper your expectations a bit. Or not since you're giving up on FFXIV's narrative at this point.

Just my 2 cents.

I think this is the main reason why I’m still interested to stick around.

It’s clear they’re pretty self aware with how the community perceives the story for the most part. So when they go off the mark they know they just need to pin a note and eventually address it.

My only reservation is that it’s kind of a shame that 6.0 was designed to be a big climax to the game but didn’t stick the landing for a few of its most important characters. Especially when the most important one with issues (Venat) is killed off now. So any kind of retcon about her is likely going to be hell to not make awkward, if they even bother.

[Teraq]

I mean. They are. I bought Warcraft 2 back when it released from one of those Scholastic catalogues, and I was blown away by how cool the Horde was in general, but especially the Trolls and their leader, Zul'jin. You could write out the entirety of his story on a sticky note, but it worked for me back then and it still does now. Even the part where he eventually became a raid boss in WoW: The Burning Crusade, where the Amani (Forest Trolls) were hit hard with the villain bat and Zuljin was made into a raid boss... it worked for me, because it was entirely in line with who Zuljin and his people were.

I'm not getting over Blizzard never including any Dark Trolls in WoW (save for one Twilight Hammer mob model in Hyjal... maybe?) and just telling us in BfA "oh yeah they all dead lol". I thought it would have been cool to include them as the bulky, dark purple/gray-skinned Trolls with primitive culture but cunning who made their home near one of the holiest landmarks of Night Elves but... nope.

My favorite character in Endwalker? It is—or was—Venat. But from what I'm seeing of the Q&A, I was completely wrong about her character, and everything I did like about her was actually a carefully framed lie on the writers' part, made to convince me she was something other than what they intended all along.

Oof. While I disliked her personally, I have to say I'm even more confused now over what their intent was. I had always thought they would make her more openly of a villain, kind of in-line with FFXII (Where's the iconic line, by the way? you can't include Venat and not have the line, or at least a XIV-lore-complying variant of it. I don't care how unsubtle it would have been. This is the Final Fantasy theme park MMO, I'm here to get my head bashed with cameos and references), but the game seemed quite intent on painting her as a hero, as your character drops any pretense of finding her suspicious after Elpis, and, well, the minion, Y'shtola and Emet praising her, etc. But now they've doubled down on making her responsible for everything, and... I guess we should just be okay with YoshiP saying she's morally ambiguous? I mean, yeah, I'd say that is putting it mildly.

[Theodric]

It's not enough to make me completely lose faith in the writers like some other people seem to have, though.

Well, I don't want to speak for anybody else but I've personally been raising an eyebrow in response to some of the story decisions for a while now. As far back as Stormblood.

Perhaps it would be easier to stomach and overlook if FFXIV had more going for it in general, though as it stands it decided to make the bulk of its focus shifted towards the MSQ's.

[Teraq]

Well, I don't want to speak for anybody else

Good point; I don't want to look like I'm speaking for every other Ascian fan by rollin and hatin on just about everything in EW that wasn't atmospheric post-Soviet depression. I do know there are probably loads of others who liked it, otherwise I wouldn't have felt so despondent and isolated after finishing EW and browsing through social media.

(edit)



Okay so I think I ... kind of see Capricorn in the absolutely-not-lion mask. The lion's eyes would be the horns much like Mitron's, and its snout and nose the overall shape of a goat's head with the goatee.

I suppose thinking it would have tied into one of the main villains of EW, that we coincidentally first saw in Garlemald where Gaius might have operated before meeting him in the Burn, was... too much common sense. It's the one Ascian we knew literally nothing about (and still don't, not even from Elpis!) instead. Consider my expectations well and truly subverted again!

[Theodric]

Good point; I don't want to look like I'm speaking for every other Ascian fan by rollin and hatin on just about everything in EW that wasn't atmospheric post-Soviet depression. I do know there are probably loads of others who liked it, otherwise I wouldn't have felt so despondent and isolated after finishing EW and browsing through social media.

You're definitely not alone. I've spoken with a decent amount of people with similar opinions.

I also don't think it helped the game to quietly shuffle so many key developers over to FFXVI. It could very well be the cause of so many mixed messages being sent. I was confused by the announcement that someone else had taken over from Koji in regards to the English localisation back in ShB.

[AnotherPerson]

Memories from the final days passed from Emet to Zenos as you would pass DNA? (Yay more calvinball, memories edition!)

Oh right, I just realized.
Emet can pass Zenos memories of the Final Days via Allagan technology. Allagans learned how to basically send memories of their life as a clone to another. It goes to say that Emet, who had a hand in founding the Allagan Empire (and bringing it to its ruin) should be able to do something similar. Allagans are pretty well known in experiments in that regard, and passing DNA is not unheard of (which is how G'raha, even though he isn't of Allag descent, possesses Royal blood through the highest level of Allag Technology). IIRC, the Princess of Allag - Salina - used Allagan technology to infuse her DNA into G'raha's ancestor so that his family could restore the tower as a beacon of hope.

So yeah... it's quite possible Emet was trying to recreate memories using The Final Days as a catalyst for people whose souls were born after the event. He could have failed entirely, but having the powers of the Resonant being so similar to the Echo could have affected the soul to the point where they were able to get his memories of the Final Days by peering through the DNA. A far outcry to be sure, but not implausible based on what we know about the Echo's abilities and how the Resonant is based off the Echo.

[Vyrerus]

I didn't watch the live letter, but dang. Some of these reactions I've read here and on the bird app have painted some pictures. Seems like a lot of folks were letdown, while others looked for and highlighted any positive note they liked.

[Sicno]

Oh right, I just realized.
Emet can pass Zenos memories of the Final Days via Allagan technology. Allagans learned how to basically send memories of their life as a clone to another. It goes to say that Emet, who had a hand in founding the Allagan Empire (and bringing it to its ruin) should be able to do something similar. Allagans are pretty well known in experiments in that regard, and passing DNA is not unheard of (which is how G'raha, even though he isn't of Allag descent, possesses Royal blood through the highest level of Allag Technology). IIRC, the Princess of Allag - Salina - used Allagan technology to infuse her DNA into G'raha's ancestor so that his family could restore the tower as a beacon of hope.

So yeah... it's quite possible Emet was trying to recreate memories using The Final Days as a catalyst for people whose souls were born after the event. He could have failed entirely, but having the powers of the Resonant being so similar to the Echo could have affected the soul to the point where they were able to get his memories of the Final Days by peering through the DNA. A far outcry to be sure, but not implausible based on what we know about the Echo's abilities and how the Resonant is based off the Echo.

Are you really gonna try that hard to rationalize something in the lore after tonight's live letter? You're probably trying to fill gaps the writers didn't even consider or dropped plot points.

It all feels pointless now. Next patch they'll retcon or create new rules for memories just to fit with the writer's whims on that particular day.

[Teraq]

Oh right, I just realized.
Emet can pass Zenos memories of the Final Days via Allagan technology. Allagans learned how to basically send memories of their life as a clone to another. It goes to say that Emet, who had a hand in founding the Allagan Empire (and bringing it to its ruin) should be able to do something similar. Allagans are pretty well known in experiments in that regard, and passing DNA is not unheard of (which is how G'raha, even though he isn't of Allag descent, possesses Royal blood through the highest level of Allag Technology). IIRC, the Princess of Allag - Salina - used Allagan technology to infuse her DNA into G'raha's ancestor so that his family could restore the tower as a beacon of hope.

So yeah... it's quite possible Emet was trying to recreate memories using The Final Days as a catalyst for people whose souls were born after the event. He could have failed entirely, but having the powers of the Resonant being so similar to the Echo could have affected the soul to the point where they were able to get his memories of the Final Days by peering through the DNA. A far outcry to be sure, but not implausible based on what we know about the Echo's abilities and how the Resonant is based off the Echo.

This actually makes sense. Fandaniel would pick up on it because, Amon and stuff.

I mean, this doesn't really touch on why they bothered making a "Meanwhile in Garlemald" scene about it just so they would go on to do... nothing about it. But that is indeed an explanation probably better than my "Fandaniel was musing on Emet sexy times" shitposting.

Simply the notion that an Unsundered having offsprings with mortals is confirmed to engender hybrids with oddities like huge stature and this memory stuff has ... implications. What if these hybrid humans turned out to have untold potential? Shouldn't they have been careful about things like this? How many little Emets and little Lahabreas* have been running around these 14 parallel worlds??

*sorry Eli buddy, but I just can't see it with you because I'm projecting my own orientation on my favorite chararacter, and as such I'm quite convinced he's been busy studying the blade for 12,000 years instead of having sex with mortals