"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[KariTheFox]

the only tanxiety i feel is the anxiety that people might associate me with the kinds of tanks in this thread that giggle while they let other players die

[LittleImp]

It's always funny to me because the execution requirement for perfectly murdering a single DPS without the rest of the party getting aggro is significantly higher than just doing w2w pulls. It's all just a righteous power-fantasy that anyone who seriously plays this game would understand isn't even mechanically feasible in most situations.

If anyone else in the party deals damage, or happens to heal, they're immediately put into combat and will be on the hook the moment the person you are attempting to grief dies. In this situation, you're now forced to try to perform the spooky W2W pull anyway, with your party now gimped for like 30%+ of its damage/kill-rate.

The really funny thing is, so many people here talk about how they pull small because they're trying to help the healer out, or have assessed the healer isn't competent enough to handle big pulls. If that's really the case, how is it sensible to forcibly create a situation that is even worse for the healer? Allowing a DPS to die makes healing through the already unexpected big pull significantly more difficult.

[Kaurhz]

So are tanks and healers. I haven't waited more than five minutes for either in a dungeon. Contrary to popular belief either role isn't special either. And this is coming from a tank main.



See, this is where it's completely acceptable to let them die. Trying to tag a bunch of mobs chasing someone can cause problems because you're dragging other mobs who may be AoEing. If they simply drag them back to you, then take them and be done with it. Turning off your stance for some petty nonsense is simply childish. Once again, they're not intending to cause drama but you are.

Indeed. Though my line of thinking is more.. By the time I've grabbed all the mobs from you, you're either going to be dead or a healer has just wasted some resources keeping you alive which should have been spent elsewhere. People seem to think that playing merry-go-round solves anything. Personally, I'm not as petty enough to really deliberately turn my stance off since it's just torturing everyone else for the actions of a single individual (I've not really seen many people go that far yet. - Just an insistence that the tank will let you die to the mobs you've pulled is the worse I've seen). The only expectation I create is that they at least make this intention either known or to drag them to me (that way I pick them up regardless). I'll do what is feasible possible but I won't play a game of merry-go-round or tag. But then as a tank myself I typically always wall pull unless there's a serious gear disparity with people in the party, or unless I'm specifically asked to slow down. Still witness it enough as a DPS, however.

[ErysNight]

Nice try but that's still allowing the DPS to die, which isn't doing your job as a tank. Regardless, I wouldn't waste my time arguing with you in a dungeon, I'd just Vote Kick or accept it someone else initiated one. Like I said, waiting for a new tank doesn't take nearly as long as a lot of people think.

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for. Also that's the one smart thing you've said. Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with. Leave the dungeon, or try to kick them and see if you don't get a GM Report.

Good luck!

[Ath192]

Nice try but that's still allowing the DPS to die, which isn't doing your job as a tank. Regardless, I wouldn't waste my time arguing with you in a dungeon, I'd just Vote Kick or accept it someone else initiated one. Like I said, waiting for a new tank doesn't take nearly as long as a lot of people think.

This issue has no right answer. It's a kick war and whoever has the numbers wins.

1. They can kick the DPS and get him banned via a GM report for griefing the party and pulling before everyone else was ready.
2. They can kick the Tank and get him banned via a GM report for griefing the party and not pulling as fast as everyone else wanted to go and/or not holding aggro.

So the best you can do in these instances is fight fire with fire and go out in a blaze of toxicity when the moment arrives. Make sure to bring a friend with you in to roulettes because if you go in without backup you're at the mercy of the circumstances.

In fact, I am 99% certain that anyone can ignite this exact conflict by taking offense to any micro action any player character does in the dungeon run, and I'm sure they can rationalize banning them into oblivion for it.

So the conclusion is best of luck folks. Make sure you're ready to be more offended, have more numbers, and be more eloquent when wording your GM report that the people on the other side of the argument.
Anyways, this is when you run dungeons with Forum/reddit mentality. You could otherwise be a patient and rational human being.

[MaxCarnage]

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for. Also that's the one smart thing you've said. Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with. Leave the dungeon, or try to kick them and see if you don't get a GM Report.

Good luck!

Or you need to take responsibility for the hissy fit you threw. You, as the tank, put that healer in that situation for refusing to play your role. Don't try to pass off blame for a decision that was yours.

[KariTheFox]

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for.

You have your gapcloser, your provoke, and your naturally high enmity generation built into your aoe rotation, all of those can easily take back mobs in one GCD. By not using those tools to control the mobs and pull them off of other players, you are letting them die.

But of course, you know that. You're just being intentionally obtuse and passive aggressive because you feel some need to teach the DPS a lesson, instead of doing your best to try to fulfill your role as a tank.

[Kolaina]

Nope, healer let them die. If only the DPS was courteous enough to think about what the healer might have capacity for. Also that's the one smart thing you've said. Instead of trying to bully a tank into doing more than they are comfortable with. Leave the dungeon, or try to kick them and see if you don't get a GM Report.

Good luck!

Lol now it’s the healers fault? Not yours for throwing a tantrum? Personal responsibility. Why don’t you leave the dungeon if you are having a hard time, instead of making it worse on the party. Worse on the healer.

Nope. Better to blame the healer. Their fault you don’t want to pick up mobs and tank them.

[ErysNight]

Or you need to take responsibility for the hissy fit your threw. You, as the tank, put that healer in that situation for refusing to play your role. Don't try to pass off blame for a decision that was yours.

Lmao, the first action here is DPS pulls mobs prior to the tank being ready.

You mentioned refusing to play your role, but I'd be actually allowing the DPS to RP the role they wanted to and taking on their role in return to be a good teammate. Yoshi asked me not to compel a playstyle, so I won't ask DPS to allow tanks to pull or use their words to ask for faster pulls instead of forcing them on them. Instead I'll do my DPS best. We all know DPS don't know how to AoE in dungeons anyway right. No big deal!

I don't know why you keep glossing over this. It's convenient for you, I guess you're one of the DPS that feels they get to force everyone to their own speed? But it's unfortunate. Real talk, when you see this happen next (because I'm assuming you're one of these DPS) put in a GM ticket, and come back and tag me with the result lol.

[ErysNight]

You have your gapcloser, your provoke, and your naturally high enmity generation built into your aoe rotation, all of those can easily take back mobs in one GCD. By not using those tools to control the mobs and pull them off of other players, you are letting them die.

But of course, you know that. You're just being intentionally obtuse and passive aggressive because you feel some need to teach the DPS a lesson, instead of doing your best to try to fulfill your role as a tank.

Yes, and what is the lesson? "This tank follows the TOS and allows me to be the absolute best that I want to be". I'm not even disagreeing with the concept of DPS pulling. I just don't get why they don't want the responsibility of all that comes with it?

If you don't want to play your role as DPS and want to tank, tank then. It seems pretty simple to me and I'm so incredibly magnanimous in allowing them that.

I know how hard it is for DPS to just not pull, or ask the tank to pull more using their words.