Macrocosmos completely invalidating the P3S heal check is stupid

[Semirhage]

This is one instance in one fight. Not something that should invalidate any ability. If you don't want to LB you can just heal through stuff, or you can take an ast into the fight. Just like if you want to invalidate FoF you can take a whm (or sch)... or just get on with your life and do your best healing it. Or if you want to invalidate any other [insert mechanic] then take [insert class/skill here]. There are going to be plenty of mechanics that one healer is going to do significantly better at than another, pointing fingers at one mechanic with one comp isn't going to demonstrate much. What CDs does the AST/SGE comp have available at that point in the fight? Do you know? How would they tackle the mechanic without macros? etc. etc. There's way more that goes into balancing comps/encounters than just "whaaa ast broken here"

For ONCE we get class design that isn't homogenized to the ground. Where some healers are getting us through some mechanics easier than others. Do some skills need a bit of a buff (looking at you WHM) sure. But it's totally a step in the right direction. Yet players still find a reason to pull us back to every healer getting the same rehashed kit.

The difference here is that there is only one job capable of trolling all over this mechanic with a single button press. Several healers have tools for dealing with FoF with one or two button presses. NOBODY but Astro has the ability to outright ignore a healblocking mechanic like this one, and it's because the encounter design team didn't look at Macrocosmos and realize that dealing max damage to the entire party up to four times over stores up a heal so gigantic that it can skip the mechanic.

I maintain that this is cheesy mechanic interaction that wasn't intended, and Square is likely going to either nerf the ability altogether, or change how it interacts with Death's Toll.

I've heard this BS over and over again that it's "good that some healers are good at some things" and I roll my eyes hardcore, because this is something that only -ever- applies to healers that aren't WHM. What's the mechanic that WHM, and only WHM, has a humongous advantage over all three other healers? Oh it's nothing? Because it's always nothing. I'm so bored of this eternal, ridiculous cycle where WHM is trash, the other healers are just strictly superior choices in nearly every way, and we go round and round again with "oh it's okay you'll get fixed someday".

I sat through this BS in Heavensward, sat through it in Stormblood, sat through it in Shadowbringers. I'm so tired of how unbelievably terrible WHM is compared to the other healers.

[Azurarok]

What's the mechanic that WHM, and only WHM, has a humongous advantage over all three other healers?

Benediction specifically for Living Dead and NPCs in FATES and solo content, then Holy's stun. Far from a humongous advantage, if even one, but it will always be treated like it is.

YoshiP also mentioned they upped the damage on Art of War more than Holy specifically to close that advantage in the Famitsu Media Tour interview. He also notes that Expedient was designed with that in mind as well, so if anything it isn't one for sure now.

[Ironthorne]

Benediction specifically for Living Dead and NPCs in FATES and solo content, then Holy's stun. Far from a humongous advantage, if even one, but it will always be treated like it is.

YoshiP also mentioned they upped the damage on Art of War more than Holy specifically to close that advantage in the Famitsu Media Tour interview. He also notes that Expedient was designed with that in mind as well, so if anything it isn't one for sure now.

Can't wait for the buffs WHM will get to compensate for the advantages other healers have over it!

Any day now...

[Liam_Harper]

I've heard this BS over and over again that it's "good that some healers are good at some things" and I roll my eyes hardcore, because this is something that only -ever- applies to healers that aren't WHM. What's the mechanic that WHM, and only WHM, has a humongous advantage over all three other healers? Oh it's nothing? Because it's always nothing. I'm so bored of this eternal, ridiculous cycle where WHM is trash, the other healers are just strictly superior choices in nearly every way, and we go round and round again with "oh it's okay you'll get fixed someday".

Normally I agree with your posts, but WHM being trash has nothing to do with other healers. No one is saying WHM doesn't deserve to be good too. Most of us are hoping WHM gets the attention it deserves. I fully agree with everything you say about WHM.

But "rolling your eyes hardcore" at the idea of other healers being good as a positive feels like you've lost perspective. Of course healers should be good. Do you want all 4 to be trash because WHM is bad? The fact that you can call the concept of a healer being good "BS" is baffling when at the same time you want WHM to be good.

If all you really want is WHM to be king and the others to go in the gutter because it's their turn, then you've lost some sympathy from me.

[Semirhage]

Normally I agree with your posts, but WHM being trash has nothing to do with other healers. No one is saying WHM doesn't deserve to be good too. Most of us are hoping WHM gets the attention it deserves. I fully agree with everything you say about WHM.

But "rolling your eyes hardcore" at the idea of other healers being good as a positive feels like you've lost perspective. Of course healers should be good. Do you want all 4 to be trash because WHM is bad? The fact that you can call the concept of a healer being good "BS" is baffling when at the same time you want WHM to be good.

If all you really want is WHM to be king and the others to go in the gutter because it's their turn, then you've lost some sympathy from me.

I'm rolling my eyes at this -exact- same BS cropping back up from Stormblood. It's a piecemeal construction stitched together from good arguments that stand on their own, but are used to defend stupid status quo. The currently-overpowered healers want to have their cake and eat it too. It's an unassailable Motte and Bailey argument.

"Diversity between healers is good! Homogenization bad!" is the argument du jour when it serves. What, how dare you criticize me having good tools, don't you want healers to have unique abilities!?

"What is this stupidity about healers having weaknesses, classes shouldn't have weaknesses!" Oh, but I thought you disliked homogenization?

I heard this bullshit from Scholars and Astros back in Stormblood all the time. Homogenization bad (when it's used to suggest that one healer being super good at everything is OP). Homogenization good (when it's used to suggest that one healer being good at everything is "really good design"). You can't square bringing WHM up with these two incompatible positions. What exactly would you make WHM good at then? Because if you give them something that the overpowered healers are already good at, that's BAD EVIL HOMOGENIZATION. And whoops, would you look at that, they're already really good at everything what a coincidence.

I'm rolling my eyes hardcore not at the idea of other healers being good. That's a strawman they fling up every single time anyone criticizes how overpowered they are. I'm rolling my eyes at the idea that a healer being good at everything is healthy for a balanced role, because it's not. You only compete with a class that has no weaknesses by having no weaknesses yourself. And considering the bitchfest the other healers launch into whenever anyone dares suggest WHM get anything like party buffs or the like, it sounds to me like the quiet part you're not supposed to say is "yep me being OP is good, but I hope they fix you someday, but not in a way that ever allows you to be competitive with me, kisses!"

They're literally never going to make WHM good Liam. You're going to have to watch the other healers go through waves of being OP and getting nerfed. You'll get patronizing head pats from them when they're OP, and tooth-gnashing fury from them claiming your complaints are what got them nerfed when that happens too. And all the while, time continues moving forward.

I find it really galling that me pointing out the fact that WHM has never been king of anything is construed to mean that I'm an evil WHM main out to destroy the other healers, but the other healers defending their constant meta slots isn't a bad thing. Lemme ask you, should WHM ever be the best at anything? Because clearly if you think so, that's tantamount to wanting all of the other healers to be garbage can tier.

EDIT: To summarize, you have two axioms. "Homogenization is bad; healers should be useful in different places", and "job X being A or S-tier at everything is good design because weaknesses are bad". You take these two statements and throw them in the logic machine, and what I see as the inevitable conclusion to those statements is "I'm superior to my competition by definition". What else could you conclude? If you give the competition things that it "needs" to be as good as the job in question, that's homogenization. And you can't bring the unassailable, impenetrable good-at-everything class down, because that's "good design". So yes, WHM is terrible in part because the other healers are "good". Because I think their definition of "good" means "my competition remains bad", they just imply it with several assertions that overlap to produce that state instead of saying it outright.

[HyperiusUltima]

Yeah? And explain why people complained to hell and back about WHM's Lilies being HORRIBLE in Stormblood? They harped on that for THE ENTIRE EXPANSION. And guess what they got? A better lily system. It's not about some status quo crap you're referring to as if it's a "us vs. them" when in reality it's more "Devs do not know what to do with healers".

I heard this bullshit from Scholars and Astros back in Stormblood all the time. Homogenization bad (when it's used to suggest that one healer being super good at everything is OP). Homogenization good (when it's used to suggest that one healer being good at everything is "really good design"). You can't square bringing WHM up with these two incompatible positions. What exactly would you make WHM good at then? Because if you give them something that the overpowered healers are already good at, that's BAD EVIL HOMOGENIZATION. And whoops, would you look at that, they're already really good at everything what a coincidence.

Put it in retrospective: The Devs balanced themselves into a goddamned corner with AST because it could do both the things that WHM could do and some of the things SCH could to an extent and then some. The question you should be asking actually is "What is WHM good at currently? What is it lacking QoL-wise?" WHM is good at healing, but that's it. It needs more MP, and it needs a flat rework due to the job's design being stuck in ARR since they want a nice, simple healer. In fact, WHM doesn't need their Lily Heals to be on GCD anymore. Make them oGCD since WHM can now weave so that Misery is a big enough gain. That was what WHM's power was over the two before: Flat Potency. Misery would put it high up enough to contend in terms of raid damage contribution given how PoM is; but MP needs fixing.

I find it really galling that me pointing out the fact that WHM has never been king of anything is construed to mean that I'm an evil WHM main out to destroy the other healers, but the other healers defending their constant meta slots isn't a bad thing. Lemme ask you, should WHM ever be the best at anything? Because clearly if you think so, that's tantamount to wanting all of the other healers to be garbage can tier.

HW? They were king of healing - until 3.2 when AST got buffed enough. Stormblood? King of healing again - but everyone wanted damage because of AST and AST got buffed. Shadowbringers? Damage. They contributed raw damage that helped their rDPS get high enough to compete with the other healers. Now? Nothing. I also do not believe people are defending their slots: It comes down to the community's preferences which varies from DC to DC; but I'd like to add you aren't helping your argument by attempting to demonize the other three healers.

Your edit also is causing your argument to be more stigmatized, and I can tell the emotion just by reading it. WHM needs the buffs, yes. We all typically aren't arguing unless we literally haven't even touched the job. We know for a fact that WHM is underperforming heavily compared to the other healers because their MP economy sucks, along with their damn job design that doesn't help itself due to the limitations put on WHM's own systems(Lily being GCD still when we have a 1.5s cast now, Liturgy being a horrible capstone due to WHM requiring to take damage, Holy III still having a 2.5s cast time, and so on).