What's next for new jobs after Endwalker.

[SeverianLyonesse]

I mean, I never stated that PUP will become a job in the game or that nothing else could ever be as good as PUP. I've just been trying to denounce the idea that "I don't like it, so it's not a good job concept." I don't think AST does true justice to the concept of Gambler or Time Mage and feel that either of those concepts could be composed in a unique and compelling way that could be distinct from AST. This all stemmed from the discussion about how much potential there was for future jobs, which I would argue there's still a wealth of, and stopping here based on potentiality alone would be a shame. What argument I do see as valid is the arguement of resources needed to continue to grow the roster of jobs. However, since XIV has yet to plateau and continues to grow in population and popularity, I would argue investing into more manpower to maintain the steady expansion of jobs would be a positive move.

I admit I don't like the job, but that is not really my basis for saying it is unlikely. Not every job in the game is going to be for me. I don't really like Reaper either but it at least makes sense within XIV's design sensibilities.

What I am seeing quite a lot is people who for some reason *love* a job concept so much that they try to denounce all the existing evidence for why that job is not a very good idea. They think a game with DRK and RDM (and SAM and GNB) still needs a Rune Fencer or Mystic Knight. They think a game with AST as implemented is somehow missing or still has design space for Gambler or Time Mage. They think a game that is abandoning pet jobs needs a non-limited Beastmaster or Puppetmaster. Most job proposals on these forums are profoundly myopic and wholly inconsiderate of the 9 year edifice which already exists to contextualize and limit design decisions.

So it doesn't really matter whether I personally think the PUP job fantasy is pretty thin and tawdry. I admit that my surprise is amplified by the fact that PUP is a hill anyone would die on over something newer and more inspired. But the surprise would still be there even if I thought PUP were at least a half-decent job concept like RUN or COR, because the design space has just been eaten away at this point, between the gradual elimination of pet jobs, the middling success of limited jobs, and the poaching of most of PUP's distinct job fantasy by MCH and RPR.

[ty_taurus]

I admit I don't like the job, but that is not really my basis for saying it is unlikely. Not every job in the game is going to be for me. I don't really like Reaper either but it at least makes sense within XIV's design sensibilities.

What I am seeing quite a lot is people who for some reason *love* a job concept so much that they try to denounce all the existing evidence for why that job is not a very good idea. They think a game with DRK and RDM (and SAM and GNB) still needs a Rune Fencer or Mystic Knight. They think a game with AST as implemented is somehow missing or still has design space for Gambler or Time Mage. They think a game that is abandoning pet jobs needs a non-limited Beastmaster or Puppetmaster. Most job proposals on these forums are profoundly myopic and wholly inconsiderate of the 9 year edifice which already exists to contextualize and limit design decisions.

So it doesn't really matter whether I personally think the PUP job fantasy is pretty thin and tawdry. I admit that my surprise is amplified by the fact that PUP is a hill anyone would die on over something newer and more inspired. But the surprise would still be there even if I thought PUP were at least a half-decent job concept like RUN or COR, because the design space has just been eaten away at this point, between the gradual elimination of pet jobs, the middling success of limited jobs, and the poaching of most of PUP's distinct job fantasy by MCH and RPR.

Well, my biggest appeal to PUP is the potentiality for it to be a tank actually. I do not like our existing tanks. I don't care for heavy armor/weapon job aesthetics in any regard. None of them fit into any of the aesthetics I like in fantasy jobs, but the idea of being a more mystical/whimsical tank does appeal to me and would give me a job in a role that I currently do not play at all in any capacity. What I imagine is creating a pseudo "ranged" tank that shares HP with their Puppet, but can move around and pre-position themselves for mechanics, but comes at the cost of being more technically challenging to pull off correctly. Aesthetically, I could see this taking on either a more mechanical style similar to the mammets we have currently, or go in a different, theatrical type of design--like a kabuki puppet or something along those lines, and the strings that you use to control the puppet are tied to your lifeforce. When you need to dodge mechanics, you have to recall your puppet and snap them back to you.

That's something that I think captures a design space we objectively do not have--that reaper does not encapsulate in the slightest. I think a concept like that would not only appeal to a fair amount of players, but could also draw people who aren't interested in tanks into tanking. One of the issues with tanks and healers aesthetically is they tend to hit many of the same general notes, so someone who's not interested in the heavy armor, big weapon aesthetic of WAR isn't any more likely to be interested in DRK, for example. GBN diverges slightly from that design, but is still a very in-your-face, "heavy" feeling aesthetic. Now, I'm not married to that idea in the sense that if we don't get that I'm quitting XIV or anything, nor do I think that rendition of the concept is likely to be made into a real job in this game, but I do think that's largely unique and interesting in contrast to what we currently have by a long shot.

EDIT: It would seem this concept already exists in a way here in this mobile MOBA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATDLd4bUoeM&t=267s

[Mugear_bahamut]

Well, my biggest appeal to PUP is the potentiality for it to be a tank actually. I do not like our existing tanks. I don't care for heavy armor/weapon job aesthetics in any regard. None of them fit into any of the aesthetics I like in fantasy jobs, but the idea of being a more mystical/whimsical tank does appeal to me and would give me a job in a role that I currently do not play at all in any capacity. What I imagine is creating a pseudo "ranged" tank that shares HP with their Puppet, but can move around and pre-position themselves for mechanics, but comes at the cost of being more technically challenging to pull off correctly. Aesthetically, I could see this taking on either a more mechanical style similar to the mammets we have currently, or go in a different, theatrical type of design--like a kabuki puppet or something along those lines, and the strings that you use to control the puppet are tied to your lifeforce. When you need to dodge mechanics, you have to recall your puppet and snap them back to you.

That's something that I think captures a design space we objectively do not have--that reaper does not encapsulate in the slightest. I think a concept like that would not only appeal to a fair amount of players, but could also draw people who aren't interested in tanks into tanking. One of the issues with tanks and healers aesthetically is they tend to hit many of the same general notes, so someone who's not interested in the heavy armor, big weapon aesthetic of WAR isn't any more likely to be interested in DRK, for example. GBN diverges slightly from that design, but is still a very in-your-face, "heavy" feeling aesthetic. Now, I'm not married to that idea in the sense that if we don't get that I'm quitting XIV or anything, nor do I think that rendition of the concept is likely to be made into a real job in this game, but I do think that's largely unique and interesting in contrast to what we currently have by a long shot.

EDIT: It would seem this concept already exists in a way here in this mobile MOBA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATDLd4bUoeM&t=267s

Have you seen my post on a tank PUP?
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...67#post5865567