What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Teraq]

I'd like to point out that that scene is not the first time we see a character's memories not be 100% accurate (unlike Echo flashbacks for... some reason). It's admittedly optional content, but as part of the Bozja storyline you

go into Cid's memories which turn out to be a complete mess, you fight Bahamut and Varis and other such nonsense etc.

Which just makes sense IMO, unless we are talking about a very recent event, memory will never not be subjective, so I am thinking the Echo isn't really relying on actual brain memory but rather ... memory...aether? if I can remember the notion correctly, to get an objective view of what actually happened.

On that point, did it bother anyone else that Venat as Hydaelyn seemed kinda okay with her memories unlike Elidibus? I mean, okay, so there are quite a few reasons you might come up with to explain why it would only be Elidibus (splitting from Zodiark, Zodiark being sealed, "saving the world" being a more frequent and vague wish than whatever the prayer to Hydaelyn truly is), but prior to EW I had been thinking she would retain little of her human identity, because she didn't seem to have any active means of refreshing her memory like Elidibus did – and also, I didn't think she would particularly care about retaining her human memory in the first place, given how highly she ended up thinking of her brethren lol.

This is why I've been worried about Azem being retconned. Also, as much as I like Elidibus, it's a bit odd to be developing this relationship with him now. I know they have the convenience of his failing memories to fall back on, but in ShB there's little indication Elidibus and Azem (or the WoL) were close outside of that one scene where we inadvertently 'call' him. I have seen a theory that his speech preceding the Seat of Sacrifice was about Azem when he says, "This I swore to...to someone." Seems unlikely though given the context.

I mean... right?? Re: my boy was done dirty, character development was absolutely rushed and incomplete in-game (I'm sorry but I think you shouldn't put character development of a main antagonist in a short story most people are not going to read, same goes for Emet and Zenos), and the grand finale to the Hydaelyn and Zodiark saga didn't see fit to include the Heart of Zodiark in the MSQ beside a single scene (which ended up saving the world, not that any character really makes mention of that).

I do absolutely headcanon the oath being said to Azem because I got the feeling from the short story that him and Azem were friends, so when Pandaemonium just flat out confirmed they apparently went on adventures together I was just (content sigh) yass

I feel like the honeymoon phase is starting to end and now that people are stopping and really thinking about Endwalker's plot that it's losing a lot of its luster.

I've largely given up on FFXIV social media so I wouldn't know, but I kind of hope you are right. Back in December I really felt like we were a tiny minority. ( @ the poster who saw fit to remind people of this by posting Metacritic scores and the like. Like... we know, it's why it feels so isolating)

Well I was going to post on Monday, but ended up doing something else. I think the main point was my gripes with how Fandaniel. They could have just kept him as someone who had beef with society in general. I mean we kind of got that? But the sympathetic angle about life and death wrecked it for me. Fandaniel would have been fine as a selfish a-hole. Someone who was tired of doing things for the sake of the star and for paradise, tired of being pushed to do what is considered right for their society. He didn't need a good reason, selfishness is good enough on an individual level. He may have not ended up well liked, but when even the main subreddit is poking holes in your life/death argument, then you pretty much failed on the sympathetic front.

Exactly. I muse a lot about Fandaniel because he should be a character I like – I usually like the fun and entertaining villains who just decide to screw with everyone else because they hate them all. I've been trying to put my finger on why his character bothered me so much.

* The "life is death therefore pointless" angle really doesn't work for me, but that's just me. I don't relate to it at all. Whereas Emet and Elidibus's (and Lahabrea's post-mortem, RIP) motivation of "I'd do anything to bring back what was erased from history for a very debatable reason" was much more relatable to me.

* The thing about the "humans are bastards and deserve to be extinct" motivation is that... you kinda need to show us humans really were despicable for it to be truly sympathetic. Rape, war, genocide. Heavy shit. Not a bunch of soft weenwoons who only thought about being the caretakers of the planet and were explicitly shown to mourn creations in Elpis. Except the story still wants you to go along with it and think that "Oh he totally has a point, he's just testing humans like these heartless researchers test animals in Elpis", and pretend this isn't just insane.

* The absolute worst offender is his death scene after the Zodiark trial. It's amazing how it doesn't work in multiple ways:
- The first time you see the scene, it's just... WTF?? Why does Fandaniel, of all people, get the sad piano, slow-mo and monologue? Are you telling me this game wants me to mourn the hateful nihilistic clown who literally made gross flesh towers out of a corpse? It's just really... out of place. You don't have the necessary context for the scene to work.
- When you watch it again in hindsight and you know about Hermes, it becomes kinda worse. First, you totally recognise that sad piano tune is night time Elpis. And then it dawns on you: this game wants you to mourn the unhinged vegan who literally okayed the end of the world and the extinction of every living thing on the planet because they should have reconsidered animal rights in that one facility somewhat. God, so much for being sad for the poor ravenous murder-machine Lykaons.
- This game wants you to mourn Hermes, but actually I am sitting here grieving Zodiark and his contribution to the story of this grand finale as the level 83 trial before we get to the real plot.

* Honestly, I think I don't have this much of a problem with Hermes/Fandaniel himself as a villain, but everything surrounding him and how the plot wants to treat him. The plot offers so little questioning of his reasoning that it feels like it's tacitly justifying him. There is Emet opposing him and telling him his methodology is shit, and that approving the apocalypse on a whim is like kiiiiinnnda cringe, but then Emet gets hit with the meme beam and handed the Idiot Ball. Same goes for Venat just deciding not to tell anyone about him being a complete gremlin. My character just nodded to that? Stop trying to excuse Hermes and just fully commit to him being a bastard, and have characters call him (them both, tbh) out. In the process, flesh out the Ancients more so they aren't just collectively strawmen standing there to validate Hermes's and Venat's respective viewpoints.
(At least Asahi got to drag him down to the worst hell or whatever. I kinda wanted the same scene with Venat and Elidibus.)

Anyway. I just really appreciate the FATE vendor lady in Elpis trading bird meat and eggs for bicolor gemstones, shamelessly sticking it to her deranged vegan boss. What an absolute queen.