What’s the point of Physick for Summoner?

[Gruntler]

That's the point.

As it currently stands, SMN's Physick is completely useless (unlike RDM's Vercure).
You can't seriously expect it to save you or anyone else in said "niche" situations.
Hence why I made that suggestion to "upgrade" it through a Trait if they would leave it as is.

Hell, that could also allow them to implement a brand new Astral Flow skill for Firebird Trance/Demi-Phoenix.

RDM needs Vercure for dualcast priming, it would lose little utility if the potency were reduced. (An argument can be made it'd be better if it were, but that's neither here nor there.)

Physick has no use case justifying it. This is why SMN has ogcd healing and barrier powers and RDM does not. If they made Physick useful, say good bye to your 20% HP barrier.

[Exodus-E]

RDM needs Vercure for dualcast priming, it would lose little utility if the potency were reduced. (An argument can be made it'd be better if it were, but that's neither here nor there.)

Physick has no use case justifying it. This is why SMN has ogcd healing and barrier powers and RDM does not. If they made Physick useful, say good bye to your 20% HP barrier.

OK.
Then how would replacing Physick with Rekindle at later levels (through a Trait), thus allowing us to use it anytime we wanted it (instead of only through Firebird Trance), effectively "break" its current balance?
As I suggested, just making it have a long oGCD (~2mins) would be perfect.

[Gruntler]

OK.
Then how would replacing Physick with Rekindle at later levels (through a Trait), thus allowing us to use it anytime we wanted it (instead of only through Firebird Trance), effectively "break" its current balance?
As I suggested, just making it have a long oGCD (~2mins) would be perfect.

You can't use a trait to turn a spell into an ability. That's not a 'balance issue' that's a 'you just can't do it' issue. Nor should you ever do this if you could. You should not transform spammable abilities into unspammable abilities through a trait. This is inherently bad design.

However, if they replaced Physick with something useful, that means you give up something in exchange. SMN already has ogcd healing and barrier powers (which is far more useful than a spell) so if they made Physick useful, something would have to be traded for it.

And bear in mind, I'm arguing Physick scaling from INT is still useless, because it's a spell.

[Exodus-E]

You can't use a trait to turn a spell into an ability. That's not a 'balance issue' that's a 'you just can't do it' issue. Nor should you ever do this if you could. You should not transform spammable abilities into unspammable abilities through a trait. This is inherently bad design.

Then the solution is simple: either change SMN's Physick into an ability, or change Rekindle (its potential upgrade) into a spell.
Either way would allow the former to be upgraded into the latter.

And bear in mind, I'm arguing Physick scaling from INT is still useless, because it's a spell.

So is Vercure, and even if it's (mostly) used as "dualcast fodder", it's still an utility-based spell (thus, subject to CDs).

If Physick can't scale to INT for balance reasons, then fine.
But they could (at the very least) "streamline" it so it still serves a purpose, thus, a place in players hotbars (post-Lv.49).

[Gruntler]

Then the solution is simple: either change SMN's Physick into an ability, or change Rekindle (its potential upgrade) into a spell.
Either way would allow the former to be upgraded into the latter.

Or leave it alone and use your other three cure/barriers. Summoner doesn't need a fourth. An argument can be made to have Physick scaled off Int. An argument can't be made that SMN lacks cures.

So is Vercure, and even if it's (mostly) used as "dualcast fodder", it's still an utility-based spell (thus, subject to CDs).

The fact that it is a spell is what makes it so that 'dualcast fodder' is, in serious content, it's only real utility outside of utter emergencies. The other thing is that RDM (until Endwalker) had nothing else as a defensive option. No regens, no shields, no ogcds. RDM had no Titan, no Manawall, it had Vercure and that's it.

If Physick can't scale to INT for balance reasons, then fine.

Honestly I don't care if it scales to INT. But no argument can be made that SMN is wanting for defensive options. Not one. It's got an embarassment of riches here.

But they could (at the very least) "streamline" it so it still serves a purpose, thus, a place in players hotbars (post-Lv.49).

Or just delete it. SMNs don't need what a better Physick would provide.

[IruruCece]

Or just delete it. SMNs don't need what a better Physick would provide.

Just delete Vercure too, then. Verraise is good enough for RDM.

[Exodus-E]

Or leave it alone and use your other three cure/barriers. Summoner doesn't need a fourth. An argument can be made to have Physick scaled off Int. An argument can't be made that SMN lacks cures.

Oh, sure.
Lemme wait TWO ENTIRE MINUTES before I get access to an (automatic) party-wide regen and a single target regen.
The latter of which I can only use within a 15 sec. timer.

I'm sure that (and just like with Vercure) I can use it save anyone needing a heal ASAP....oh wait, no I can't.

The fact that it is a spell is what makes it so that 'dualcast fodder' is, in serious content, it's only real utility outside of utter emergencies. The other thing is that RDM (until Endwalker) had nothing else as a defensive option. No regens, no shields, no ogcds. RDM had no Titan, no Manawall, it had Vercure and that's it.

And now that (post-Lv.80) RDM has Magick Barrier, that's no longer an issue.
Your point being?

Or just delete it. SMNs don't need what a better Physick would provide.

Only if they delete RDM's Vercure as well.
It's only fair, if it only has a "niche" use (just like with SMN's Physick), right?

[Gruntler]

Just delete Vercure too, then. Verraise is good enough for RDM.

Only if they delete RDM's Vercure as well.
It's only fair, if it only has a "niche" use (just like with SMN's Physick), right?

Vercure DOES something though. It permits you the ability to proc dualcast when there's no boss up. They could nerf vercure so it worked like physick and it'd still be miles ahead of physick in use because it has this niche. Which is a niche you use on every fight with downtime. But it can't be deleted because that's deleting an actual piece of utility that RDMs use in their kit for damage optimization.

SMN's physick does not have any similar niche use, and you know it! What 'niche' use are you guys referring to with Physick? Does it make your next Ruin III cast hit harder or something undocumented that I'm not aware of? No? It just makes a green number appear? Okay then, it doesn't have a niche use and you're trolling.

Oh, sure.
Lemme wait TWO ENTIRE MINUTES before I get access to an (automatic) party-wide regen and a single target regen.
The latter of which I can only use within a 15 sec. timer.

And two charges of a shield you use on yourself, which you use during prog to help your healers. You DO use your shields yes? And the regen is one that, if you don't need it right away, it parks on the target for 30 seconds, and then triggers if they take a bit of damage, ticks for 1000 healing.

If that's not useful to you, then Physick sure as hell won't be.

And now that (post-Lv.80) RDM has Magick Barrier, that's no longer an issue.
Your point being?

RDM has a raidwide redux now. It's a good one. No one's saying it's not.

That still means RDM is the only dps in the game without a personal mitigation cooldown/selfheal ogcd of some sort. And I'm not saying it should.

But when you have a job that has an embarassment of defensive riches you don't look to the job that has less than you and go 'How come that job has something it can piss away its dps for?'

And I'm on team 'I don't actually give a fuck if Physick scales with Int' because it'd still be shit. But I'd rather, if given the choice, have Aegis made good (not tied to vanillacarby) than Physick made less-shit-but-still-shit.

[MellowMink]

Hows about Square Enix just go all the way for the summoner route (as far as phsyik goes) Since they have reworked summoner to be more like its traditional style in past games (summon the monster, let it carpetbomb the area and then immedialy leave)

Just remove Physick, and then add "Summon Moogle King" Simularly to the other summons, moogle will be summoned, appear, use a aoe pom-cure or something, and then dissapear. The summoner gains 3 stacks of "mog-attunement" to use on 3 abilities.
Gemshine turns to Pom-cure 2 (a single target heal)
Preshoius brilliance turns to Moogle-go-round (a small aoe crit buff)
Astral Flow turns to Momento Moogle (an aoe damaging attack)

i may put this idea into more thought and detail later, but I feel like this type of approach will only add to the fun, identity and versatility of the class

This would be a more complex fix for the developers than simply changing the spell to be based off a different stat or having a much higher potency, possibly via a newly added trait… but I do really like the design idea you fleshed out; that sounds like a lot of fun!

[Raikai]

This would be a more complex fix for the developers than simply changing the spell to be based off a different stat or having a much higher potency, possibly via a newly added trait… but I do really like the design idea you fleshed out; that sounds like a lot of fun!

Watch people coming for this idea with "This is trash because it doesn't fit into my high-end raid play".

I'm on the team that loves niche abilities. Is Vercure niche? It surely is, but I have been able to save 4-man wipes with it. Is Clemency niche? Pretty much, but the satisfaction of being able to finish the last 4% of a fight when just you and the other tank lives is pretty good.

On top of that, 24-man raids often require a lot of niche action usage on release when the pug is dying left and right.