Increasing number of players using 3rd party tools

[drtasteyummy]

At which point does it become too much QoL.

When it interferes the gameplay of other players.

[IdowhatIwant]

I think one thing to be aware of is setting a trend/standardisation. Wherein tools just delve more and more into QoL. This begs the question of - At which point does it become too much QoL. Will people continue to push that boundary until inevitably GMs are forced to take action, or for revisions to the ToS to happen when it isn't as passive.

If that boundary continues to get pushed further and further then it will just inevitably become a commonplace expectation, and the moment a QoL third-party tool becomes a norm expectancy then it's very unhealthy.

Mods have been pretty standard since ARR, and is only getting more normal.
It becomes to much QoL when you are affecting others game play, and gaining and advantage for yourself above other players.
ToS should not change third partys tools should be banned and ToS should remain the same. There is nothing wrong with the way SE is currently doing things.

[KageTokage]

When it interferes the gameplay of other players.

The hunt detecting programs spring to mind as something that's extremely disruptive but people either don't care or don't understand how it's causing problems.

It's also a good example of an app that's created an environment that practically forces people to rely on it either directly or indirectly to have a remotely fair chance in its associated gameplay system.

[drtasteyummy]

The hunt detecting programs spring to mind as something that's extremely disruptive but people either don't care or don't understand how it's causing problems.

It's also a good example of an app that's created an environment that practically forces people to rely on it either directly or indirectly to have a remotely fair chance in its associated gameplay system.

Which is an absolute lie, these detection come from people contributing to a pool the same way the as they do a manual callout in the hunt discord, it's literally just a QoL tool that just removes the annoying part of you to either constantly have to check out the hunt discord
or contribute to it by open the map, take the coords, area and instance and posting it, which btw if you don't want to use a tool is still posted in that discord.

[technole]

Everyone looking for a house is using botting tools too and BARDs is using them as well... look up the botbands for an instance.

That's fine, 'house buying AFKers' will have their gil drained to 0 when someone relocates and puts a retainer on their clicker spot.

[Rolder50]

That's fine, 'house buying AFKers' will have their gil drained to 0 when someone relocates and puts a retainer on their clicker spot.

Ironically this only affects people using the real low level programs like keyboard macros. High end bots would be able to differentiate between placard and retainer.

[Phaty]

Well WoW Mythic people who race and brag about the skills would be in total disarray without their precious cheat addons which Blizzard also allows. It's all about people being hypocrites. Same applies to any tool which gives you the notification on mechanics, no matter the game

Lol the WF racers learn the fights and write the addons

[Falar]

When I last saw yoshi discuss ACT he mentioned its functionality is the same as if you copy and pasted from the battle log to a spreadsheet so that unless you were using it to belittle other players its not likely you will be sanctioned.

So officially its not allowed but they're not looking to do anything about it as long as you don't broadcast that you're using it.

[KageTokage]

Which is an absolute lie, these detection come from people contributing to a pool the same way the as they do a manual callout in the hunt discord, it's literally just a QoL tool that just removes the annoying part of you to either constantly have to check out the hunt discord
or contribute to it by open the map, take the coords, area and instance and posting it, which btw if you don't want to use a tool is still posted in that discord.

I'm not talking about Faloop, which is just a hunt tracker with extra bells and whistles.

There's a certain plug-in people are using that automatically detects and relays S ranks to them using information gathered via client side datamining and said information is also gathered from other users of the plug-in and bots that have a similar function built into them (Which are where the relays are usually coming from as the number of people who actively search for/spawn hunts is extremely small).

Even if you're relying on the second-hand relays it posts to certain discords there's still enough of a delay that you oft end up stuck behind several dozen people in the server/instance queues.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

Was it that one exploit with doing 11's Salvage missions via item dupe? I remember a banwave that hit quite a few people back in the day because of it.

Yes, they did gather data for everyone who did join the item duping in salvage and threw entire communities down the cliff for taking advantage.

Because these things would also happen if they wouldn't tolerate mods, you intentionally act like people raid on Monday to Thursday then let their gather and crafting bot run from Friday to Sunday.

No, im talking about players that go to bed and continue to gather on an alt for the entire night. Or players that bot while going to work and these things happen every day, and you only need very few players doing that to interrupt the entire market. If they raid or not is not relevant.

If SE doesn't act on gold buyers, bots and PvP cheaters than that is a whole different story. If you decide that a cleaner looking UI, Deadly Boss Mod
or some kind of QoL improvements increase your fun then this is totally fine, why bother what others do to their game. Most people enjoy this game because for once it's not a Miqote tail swinging contest and the MMO aspect is focused on a social level.

QoL and advantage do not go hand in hand, i personally dont care about anything that has no effect on the game as is, Your argument is basically amounting to "ill cheat at monopoly with my friends, because we just play for fun".

I think one thing to be aware of is setting a trend/standardisation. Wherein tools just delve more and more into QoL. This begs the question of - At which point does it become too much QoL. Will people continue to push that boundary until inevitably GMs are forced to take action, or for revisions to the ToS to happen when it isn't as passive.

There is a chance even if its slim that eventually SE will crash down these players, at this point they don't only turn a blind eye but close both. QoL becomes a problem when it becomes automated on a level it disrupts game play of others.

And because its been thrown in here as well, other games like WoW have no playstation users which means they can embrace the pc and all its perks. So if they did allow any modifications to the game playstation users would be left behind, which creates a unfair advantage ... again.