Increasing number of players using 3rd party tools

[Imoye]

Absolute state of why devs almost never listen

No idea what you're trying to say. Sorry.

[Asari5]

recently i read at several places (even at places where i disnt expect talk about add-ons) from people asking about add ons and talking about them.... the users never really told the not-yet-users that add ons are illegal. everyone has to decide on their own if they use them or not... but it should made clear that add ons are illegal.

and... i tecently read several times about an illegal client so people dont have to log in every time... is that a thing now? being so lazy people dont even want to write two words?

[Rolder50]

recently i read at several places (even at places where i disnt expect talk about add-ons) from people asking about add ons and talking about them.... the users never really told the not-yet-users that add ons are illegal. everyone has to decide on their own if they use them or not... but it should made clear that add ons are illegal.

and... i tecently read several times about an illegal client so people dont have to log in every time... is that a thing now? being so lazy people dont even want to write two words?

Yoshi has said time and time again that addons are against TOS and that you could be banned for using them. But they don't ban people for using them, so that's where the "decide on your own" bit comes from. And regarding the client login thing, it has many other available features other then the auto-login, so it's just a nice side benefit really.

[Themarvin]

Everyone looking for a house is using botting tools too and BARDs is using them as well... look up the botbands for an instance.

[KageTokage]

I'm not that fussed about people using UI mods that simply change the appearance of existing information, but when they start making modifications that are providing more information then the game does normally it starts to feel a bit uncomfortable.

Granted, a lot of this stuff could be argued to be QoL that should be in the game to begin with (IE, displaying only important debuffs from other players like Trick Attack and Chain Strategem, displaying your debuffs on enemies without needing to target them for DoT management purposes, etc), but it's still an advantage.

When it comes third party program usage in general, there has been a definite uptick in that regard; partly due to the creation of various add-on platforms that make them far more accessible then they were originally as people can now easily browse/install them from an exhaustive list of different plug-ins ranging from harmless like the BRD macro player to straight-up cheating like bots for virtually every aspect of the game you can think of.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

Its funny how defensive ppl always get when players legitimately are concerned about 3rd party tools, and i feel like "3rd party" is not what most players are worried about, its automated things, like gathering bots and crafting bots.

None cares if you use a shader, act or anything that gives you no feasible advantage. However, if you combine crafting and gathering bots with a crafting system that is so easy that it doesn't need any hq mats or luck anymore ... you run into a problem.

Crafted gear, food and pots are worthless ... its at times cheaper to buy them then to putting the effort in to getting the mats and making them yourself. Because why wouldn't it ... if you run a gathering bot 8h a day while you work, he will get the mats and craft the items. You have no connection to the time and effort that was required and sell it for prices normal ppl would never even think about.

Combine that with the Marketboard bot that lists items and changes prices ... how the F is a new player to compete with it unless he does nieche items such as leveling.

When you see their 1 week report you see the thousands of rmt shouters they ban, yet for bots player use ...
4 Players got a temp ban across every single data center. How they think posting that is a good idea is beyond me, zone to Limsa and you stumble over 4 bots while you enter.

This means SE has no idea what their doing about bots, the 4 that got caught were likely stupid enough to outright say that they bot.

The "well dont do it then" argument doesn't work if you get benefit from it ... and unless SE kicks PS support we will never have anything allowed like this anyway, because it breaks the balance.

Reminds me of the good ol days in FFXI in which they retroactively banned players when a exploit was found once, a small ban hammer wave would do right to wake the community. If theres no punishment for not following tos, why would you follow it ... i get it.

[Cincierta]

Reminds me of the good ol days in FFXI in which they retroactively banned players when a exploit was found once, a small ban hammer wave would do right to wake the community. If theres no punishment for not following tos, why would you follow it ... i get it.

Was it that one exploit with doing 11's Salvage missions via item dupe? I remember a banwave that hit quite a few people back in the day because of it.

[Canadane]

I for one will not shed a tear when cheaters are banned.
Even something as small as UI mods, it's your own undoing.

[drtasteyummy]

Its funny how defensive ppl always get when players legitimately are concerned about 3rd party tools, and i feel like "3rd party" is not what most players are worried about, its automated things, like gathering bots and crafting bots.

None cares if you use a shader, act or anything that gives you no feasible advantage. However, if you combine crafting and gathering bots with a crafting system that is so easy that it doesn't need any hq mats or luck anymore ... you run into a problem.

Crafted gear, food and pots are worthless ... its at times cheaper to buy them then to putting the effort in to getting the mats and making them yourself. Because why wouldn't it ... if you run a gathering bot 8h a day while you work, he will get the mats and craft the items. You have no connection to the time and effort that was required and sell it for prices normal ppl would never even think about.

Combine that with the Marketboard bot that lists items and changes prices ... how the F is a new player to compete with it unless he does nieche items such as leveling.

When you see their 1 week report you see the thousands of rmt shouters they ban, yet for bots player use ...
4 Players got a temp ban across every single data center. How they think posting that is a good idea is beyond me, zone to Limsa and you stumble over 4 bots while you enter.

This means SE has no idea what their doing about bots, the 4 that got caught were likely stupid enough to outright say that they bot.

The "well dont do it then" argument doesn't work if you get benefit from it ... and unless SE kicks PS support we will never have anything allowed like this anyway, because it breaks the balance.

Reminds me of the good ol days in FFXI in which they retroactively banned players when a exploit was found once, a small ban hammer wave would do right to wake the community. If theres no punishment for not following tos, why would you follow it ... i get it.

Because these things would also happen if they wouldn't tolerate mods, you intentionally act like people raid on Monday to Thursday then let their gather and crafting bot run from Friday to Sunday.
If SE doesn't act on gold buyers, bots and PvP cheaters than that is a whole different story. If you decide that a cleaner looking UI, Deadly Boss Mod
or some kind of QoL improvements increase your fun then this is totally fine, why bother what others do to their game. Most people enjoy this game because for once it's not a Miqote tail swinging contest and the MMO aspect is focused on a social level.

[Kaurhz]

I think one thing to be aware of is setting a trend/standardisation. Wherein tools just delve more and more into QoL. This begs the question of - At which point does it become too much QoL. Will people continue to push that boundary until inevitably GMs are forced to take action, or for revisions to the ToS to happen when it isn't as passive.

If that boundary continues to get pushed further and further then it will just inevitably become a commonplace expectation, and the moment a QoL third-party tool becomes a norm expectancy then it's very unhealthy.