P1N Warrior solo kill

[KariTheFox]

Having 8 tanks especially WARs IS the optimal choice. No matter what, it´s pretty much impossible to wipe. Hey, there are DPS checks in savage. But in normal? Hell i see more than enough ppl underperforming and dieing, even lately there was a BRD in savage doing less damage than the tanks. So why not playing tanks only with an easy rotation, tons of defs and self-heal? It would be braindead mode.
But of course... there are still some confident players which don´t have to rely on some broken stuff. That´s the only reason why it´s not a thing. Such players prefer to go in with 1-2 tanks and 6 DPS.

You have a strange definition of "optimal" if you think "impossible to wipe = optimal"

(also what does some BRD underperforming at thier role have to do with anything?)

[ssunny2008]

You have a strange definition of "optimal" if you think "impossible to wipe = optimal"

(also what does some BRD underperforming at thier role have to do with anything?)

It´s no strange definiton, it´s reality. Optimal would be the most effective way across all circumstances. Of course if you´ve 8 confident players, the optimal choice would be to go in with 8 DPS classes, if there wouldn´t be a bunch of raidwides or tankbusters. But if there is no DPS check, it´s 8 tanks (8 warriors).

Tanks are nearly equal to healer, if not a bit higher in comparison if we talk about dps. DPS classes are about ~33% better if we count the top parses. So if we compare a standard grp of 2 tanks, 4 DPS and 2 healer to a full tank party, then the tankparty is doing about 20% less damage. If a standard comp is able to clear a fight in 10 minutes, the tank party would need 12. It might sound much to you or others, but it isn´t.
Those 2 minutes are well spend. If some ppl die in the standard comp, then those 2 minutes are nothing anymore. The risk to wipe is way higher too, meanwhile a fulltank party can ignore half of the mechanics and still performing top damage and keeping 100% uptime. The rotation is easier and they´re way more forgivable in any way, which lasts in my example. A lot of players aren´t able to perform well on any classes especially not DPS classes. But if they pick a WAR, they play 123 all day long meanwhile being pretty much unkillable. And you meet such ppl every day. A bunch do even jump on the OT spot to prog savage for obvious reasons.
If you keep such things in mind, then the most effective way is to pick the safe and easy choice called "8x WAR". I´m convinced it would prevent a bunch of stupid wipes and so far way more wasted time than those ~20%. (As it was at the given example of Rathalos.)


Tanks are broken and WAR is on top of it. As been said, without DPS checks and perhaps without such "Play the trinity!"-mechanics, 8 tanks or 1 tank / 7 DPS would be a permanent thing. We already saw 2 tanks and 6 DPS in Zodiark., so yeah. SE just tries to push us in the standard comp with the 1% bonus and stuff like healerstacks to justify the existence of RDPS and healer classes and to ignore the broken state of tanks completely. Tanking is absolutely braindead and the best choice to prog / to beat any content.

[Alzinor]

It´s no strange definiton, it´s reality. Optimal would be the most effective way across all circumstances. Of course if you´ve 8 confident players, the optimal choice would be to go in with 8 DPS classes, if there wouldn´t be a bunch of raidwides or tankbusters. But if there is no DPS check, it´s 8 tanks (8 warriors).

Tanks are nearly equal to healer, if not a bit higher in comparison if we talk about dps. DPS classes are about ~33% better if we count the top parses. So if we compare a standard grp of 2 tanks, 4 DPS and 2 healer to a full tank party, then the tankparty is doing about 20% less damage. If a standard comp is able to clear a fight in 10 minutes, the tank party would need 12. It might sound much to you or others, but it isn´t.
Those 2 minutes are well spend. If some ppl die in the standard comp, then those 2 minutes are nothing anymore. The risk to wipe is way higher too, meanwhile a fulltank party can ignore half of the mechanics and still performing top damage and keeping 100% uptime. The rotation is easier and they´re way more forgivable in any way, which lasts in my example. A lot of players aren´t able to perform well on any classes especially not DPS classes. But if they pick a WAR, they play 123 all day long meanwhile being pretty much unkillable. And you meet such ppl every day. A bunch do even jump on the OT spot to prog savage for obvious reasons.
If you keep such things in mind, then the most effective way is to pick the safe and easy choice called "8x WAR". I´m convinced it would prevent a bunch of stupid wipes and so far way more wasted time than those ~20%. (As it was at the given example of Rathalos.)

Except the optimal way to progress in endgame content in FF is to kill the savage tier asap to get your bis faster and maybe prepare ultimate or logrun or speedkill etc....

If your goal is to kill week1, you definitely cannot do it as 8 tank since tight dps check on most fight is a thing.

beside that, people who clear a savage tier probably week 10 or higher, yes a full party of tank would be a thing since you can have a tons of gears in 10 week to upgrade your ilvl AND even with that, it would be possible with a solide dps from each tank, which means that a static of average dps tier tank couldn't even clear because of the dps check.

Even in progress, tank do not take tons of damage but they still can die from deadly mechanics or because they pay no attention, so, if it happen ? who's going to rez them ? Do you know that many people cleared their savage fight because there were healer to adjust and rez people.
it is better to have a party with any role to make sure you can still prog or pass a 8 man mechanics instead on jumping in the wall after 8min because you know you can't go further with dead people on your side

Then no, 8 tank is not optimal in any way, optimal also mean " fast prog and fast kill" not waiting a bunch of week to flex on people " hey look game is ez i've cleared with a 8 tank party week 45" or even " hey just did my weekly as 8 tank and it took us 2 more min on each fight to kill because we had no dps lol"

Every role needs to have some weakness that the other roles can augment. Tanks right now don't.

We can not rez people

but more seriously, every role have a weakness, even tank.

dps : they're squishy and are dependant of healing and mitigation from healers and tank but they have the highest damage in game and help a lot to rpgress and clear a fight.
healers : can heal and even tank auto attack even in savage (true story) but can not take tank buster / can not do enough damage to clear a fight by themselves..
tank : can pretty much do a good dps, heal themselves and sometimes party but don't have the highest damage in game and are dependant of healers and dps on some fights with tight dps / heal check or even mechanics which require to have a specific role inside.

[ssunny2008]

Then no, 8 tank is not optimal in any way, optimal also mean " fast prog and fast kill" not waiting a bunch of week to flex on people " hey look game is ez i've cleared with a 8 tank party week 45" or even " hey just did my weekly as 8 tank and it took us 2 more min on each fight to kill because we had no dps lol"

I don´t know, have you read? I said, if there is no DPS check. It´s one of the things to force ppl to play standard comps. But if there is none, tanks are the easy choice.
Even in savage or overall world first prog, 8 tanks are superior. First of all you might see more mechanics since ppl actually survive. And if there is no DPS check, then you just gonna faceroll 30 minutes through a fight.
A perfect example would be P1s. If someone fucks up the gems, it´s mostly a wipe. But if you´ve 8 tanks, it doesn´t matter if someone fcks them up. So all what holds you back is that DPS check. So far it might be a thing that the prog would be even faster if there wouldn´t be such DPC checks and all because tanks are nothing but broken and highly forgivable.

[Alzinor]

I don´t know, have you read? I said, if there is no DPS check. It´s one of the things to force ppl to play standard comps. But if there is none, tanks are the easy choice.
Even in savage or overall world first prog, 8 tanks are superior. First of all you might see more mechanics since ppl actually survive. And if there is no DPS check, then you just gonna faceroll 30 minutes through a fight.
A perfect example would be P1s. If someone fucks up the gems, it´s mostly a wipe. But if you´ve 8 tanks, it doesn´t matter if someone fcks them up. So all what holds you back is that DPS check. So far it might be a thing that the prog would be even faster if there wouldn´t be such DPC checks and all because tanks are nothing but broken and highly forgivable.

Y but do you play the game ?
There is always a dps check on any endgame fight ( i mean relevant savage or ultimate fight) so why arguing " y but what if the dps check is no longer a thing" since it won't happen ?

that's why your 8 tank party will never be a thing in relevant time.

Funny thing:

DPS are dependant on everything.
Healers are dependant on everything.
Tanks are only dependant on DPS checks, which are only a thing in savage content. Heal-checks are a joke, stack mechanics can be solo´d. Instakill mechanics because "You´ve the wrong role"
actually show that SE just tries to force us to play nothing but a standard-comp instead of fixing their classes.

Who care about dungeons or story mode raid, they're just a thing for story, if you were looking about difficulties inside, you play the wrong content.

Pretty sure with a bit of adjust you can do a run 8 dps or 8 healer on normal raid and bring 2 rdm or smn to rez people after each TB since auto attack are a joke in NM.

[ssunny2008]

Y but do you play the game ?
There is always a dps check on any endgame fight ( i mean relevant savage or ultimate fight) so why arguing " y but what if the dps check is no longer a thing" since it won't happen ?

that's why your 8 tank party will never be a thing in relevant time.

Because it´s relevant in kind of class-balancing?

"Hey guys, we know tanks are non-stop broken. But hey... we´ve DPS checks atleast in savage. So you need those 4 DPS. And those 4 DPS need 2 healer which take care about them. So all is fine! ISN`T IT??? "

I´m a big fan of the holy trinity, but the class balancing and relevance here is a joke. Tanks are way superior, warrior is a one-man-army, meanwhile healer are green DPS which have to babysit themselves and DPS at any raidwide with off globals.

Who care about dungeons or story mode raid, they're just a thing for story, if you were looking about difficulties inside, you play the wrong content.

It´s part of the game as savage and other stuff is. Probably 90% of the whole playerbase will never meet anything else. And for endgame-players it´s even a big part since you run it pointlessly down for some tomes. All have to be kept in mind.

[Alzinor]

Because it´s relevant in kind of class-balancing?

"Hey guys, we know tanks are non-stop broken. But hey... we´ve DPS checks atleast in savage. So you need those 4 DPS. And those 4 DPS need 2 healer which take care about them. So all is fine! ISN`T IT??? "

I´m a big fan of the holy trinity, but the class balancing and relevance here is a joke. Tanks are way superior meanwhile healer are green DPS which have to babysit themselves and DPS at any raidwide with off globals.

Soooo admitting you are right, give me your opinion, tell me how you would balance tank role then ? (it is a serious question, no troll)

It´s part of the game as savage and other stuff is. Probably 90% of the whole playerbase will never meet anything else. And for endgame-players it´s even a big part since you run it pointlessly down for some tomes. All have to be kept in mind.

Yes but their main goal is to allow people with different scale of skill to take down content, they're not ingame to give you challenge, it is a casual content made for the casual playerbase which is probably 80% of the playerbase ingame.
That's why, you often run dungeons or nm raid and they seems to be over easy and not ask you to use all of your tank / heal / dps tools because it is the goal they were designed for.

[Undeadfire]

There is always a dps check on any endgame fight ( i mean relevant savage or ultimate fight) so why arguing " y but what if the dps check is no longer a thing" since it won't happen ?

Hate to break it for ya, but DPS checks have only been threats in final Savage fights for 1st/2nd week clears. Ultimates they really don't, solid strategies make them stop existing. You can die 5-7x on UWU/UCOB and still clear the fights, TEA can get away with a couple deaths as long they don't die at the wrong time, BJ/CC/Pepsiman/Alex wipe groups without everyones participation. Every group gets told if you're still struggling to beat DPS check, people are not pulling their weight, or don't care enough to try.

[Alzinor]

Hate to break it for ya, but DPS checks have only been threats in final Savage fights for 1st/2nd week clears. Ultimates they really don't, solid strategies make them stop existing. You can die 5-7x on UWU/UCOB and still clear the fights, TEA can get away with a couple deaths as long they don't die at the wrong time, BJ/CC/Pepsiman/Alex wipe groups without everyones participation. Every group gets told if you're still struggling to beat DPS check, people are not pulling their weight, or don't care enough to try.

That's why i said " relevant savage or ultimate fight".

ucob have no longer dps check with the synch scale and it is even worse since endwalker scalling ( you can skip nael divebomb with a good group, dunno if it was possible before)

Ultima is just an extreme but 14 min long.

and TEA is only mechanics, you can die plenty of times on it, as long as everyone is up on perfect and meet perfect dps check, you're good (even if like you said, you can wipe if you die at the wrong moment)

Every group gets told if you're still struggling to beat DPS check, people are not pulling their weight, or don't care enough to try.

And i totally agree on it, just said you couldn't go 8 tank week 1 and even week 3, if your dps as tank is average, and if you have 7 tank like you in your team, i'm not even sure you could meet the dps check for some fights (p2s or p3s as a perfect example)

[ssunny2008]

dps : they're squishy and are dependant of healing and mitigation from healers and tank but they have the highest damage in game and help a lot to rpgress and clear a fight.
healers : can heal and even tank auto attack even in savage (true story) but can not take tank buster / can not do enough damage to clear a fight by themselves..
tank : can pretty much do a good dps, heal themselves and sometimes party but don't have the highest damage in game and are dependant of healers and dps on some fights with tight dps / heal check or even mechanics which require to have a specific role inside.

Funny thing:

DPS are dependant on everything.
Healers are dependant on everything.
Tanks are only dependant on DPS checks, which are only a thing in savage content. Heal-checks are a joke especially for WAR, stack mechanics can be solo´d. Instakill mechanics because "You´ve the wrong role" actually show that SE just tries to force us to play nothing but a standard-comp instead of fixing their classes. Not to mention that 95% of all content can be solod by tanks, meanwhile DPS sucks hard for their 33% more damage and healers can only do that out of hardhitting tankbusters with 100 times more efford and time investment.