Endwalker White Mage has Issues

[Mortex]

I found a JP Hippokampos log with a solo WHM healer who seems to have output some nice damage. https://www.fflogs.com/reports/JqBLX...pe=damage-done (hope I don't get in trouble for this, lol).

Pretty sure every other healer can do that if you have reaper/dancer/mnk/pld and war. Like dont get me wrong but this doesnt say anything for whm its just tells you that dmg the party receives even in lower savage fights isnt high enough.

[elioaiko]

WHM has zero synergy with the other healers, especially with how lacking their oGCDs are.

Being paired with WHM means that you have to pick up the slack if WHM wants to optimal.

Lilybell should not be on 3 min CD, because you can't control it and is only useful in situations where you need staggered healing. And with its long CD, is only for maybe 3-4 time in a fight. At least allow us to save the stacks that aren't used for half the potency.

Assize should've been two charges on the GCD like Phlegma.

Either revert Thin Air or increase Assize's MP refund to 1000.

Regardless if you believe that WHM is in a bad spot, it's always been. In StB, it was literally rock bottom. After the crippling of SCH and AST, only then did WHM felt okay because 5.0 AST was hot garbage before the monster buffs it got and SCH clipped like crazy and it's fairy was very unresponsive.

Now that SCH is in a somewhat better place (cast time change helped but there's still issues) and AST is still extremely strong healing wise with SGE being outright better designed, WHM's flaws are very apparent. It's the only healer that's entire focus is GCD healing but has the highest MP costs and worst death recovery.

Lilies feel very bad to use because Misery is a DPS loss and start with zero lilies whereas SGE starts with a full Addersgall gauge.

Holy III is laughable because it still uses a 2.5s cast time, like why? It's not even that strong to begin with past the stun.

They can buff the healing numbers all they want but WHM remains to be the selfish healer that forces other healers to work harder because it just lacks the oGCDs to share the burden equally.

[Semirhage]

WHM was only "good" in Shadowbringers because they scooped the frontal lobes out of AST and SCH going in. WHM is so barebones, overly simplistic, and actively works against both itself and the combat system that it can only reasonably compete with lobotomized classes unless its numbers are blatantly overtuned. Mark my words, even if complexity manages to sneak back onto the other healers they'll be stupidified as soon as it becomes apparent, because WHM's design being horrible by fiat drags the entire role down for "balance" reasons. Even though WHM is STILL the worst healer in a room full of crayon-eaters. That's how badly it needs a core redesign.

[elioaiko]

WHM was only "good" in Shadowbringers because they scooped the frontal lobes out of AST and SCH going in. WHM is so barebones, overly simplistic, and actively works against both itself and the combat system that it can only reasonably compete with lobotomized classes unless its numbers are blatantly overtuned. Mark my words, even if complexity manages to sneak back onto the other healers they'll be stupidified as soon as it becomes apparent, because WHM's design being horrible by fiat drags the entire role down for "balance" reasons. Even though WHM is STILL the worst healer in a room full of crayon-eaters. That's how badly it needs a core redesign.

Exactly, people don't remember the nightmare the forums went through because of the healer changes in ShB.

AST changed a lot and it's 5.0 release was nearly unplayable especially Sleeve Draw forcing you to Draw each card individually three times. And Minor Arcana having to draw and then play as well. Not to mention their severe MP issues.

Or SCH losing its dots, Shadow Flare, Bane and then homogenizing the fairies and even making the fairy unresponsive as hell.

But no, people choose to praise WHM because it got the less changes. What's to change? They didn't have anything to lose, with the devs finally giving them a working gauge with the lilies from that dumpster fire gauge from StB. These are the same devs thay thought that the OG Plenary would be useful with only 8s to spam healing and then use your stacks.

People shouldn't have praised the devs for making WHM playable. People should have been more angry for essentially nerfing SCH and AST into the ground to match WHM. Rather than bring WHM up with a better designed kit.

I 100% agree with you on the notion that WHM's horrible design will haunt the healers forever. People are crying about how WHM is weak and needs buffs and thay Macrocosmos is too OP, only to realize that all the devs heat is that Macrocosmos is OP and nerf it into nothingness while changing zero on WHM's overall design.

I'm tired of people defending WHM's skeleton design. It's way too simple and lacks zero depth. It's GCD design can absolutely work but the devs are not doing it any justice by shackling WHM to the identity of being "easy". WHM does not need to be complex, just not set and forget. It requires zero thought to plan out WHM's healing because they either don't have enough oGCDs or it doesn't have any control (Lilybell).

[LuciaMirain]

Pretty sure every other healer can do that if you have reaper/dancer/mnk/pld and war. Like dont get me wrong but this doesnt say anything for whm its just tells you that dmg the party receives even in lower savage fights isnt high enough.

They had 7 deaths. Not like it was a clean clear :P Thankfully the party had enough high dps to clear anyway.

[Raiya]

Honestly Lilybell is pretty subpar in it's current form it's cooldown is ridiculously long and it's got rather niche and limited use. What would make it more useful is to reduce the CD but also for every time the effect it's triggered it works like Asylum and deals damage to the attackers too.

Cure really is underpowered as a heal they should just let it strait upgrade to cure II and be done with it.

Also revert the Thin Air nerf, that was wholly unnecessary.

Also give back Aero III, still sad they took away that spell for absolutely no reason. :C

[Mortex]

They had 7 deaths. Not like it was a clean clear :P Thankfully the party had enough high dps to clear anyway.

They did die the moment the boss was killed (they wiped 8:37 and the boss did die 8:38 that is the 2 blue arrow marker after the tank tether and stack). Almost the same time my static has for this fight at the moment.

[Jonathan_Clover]

I sincerely hope they take a good, hard look at WHM come 6.1. I was trying to level it tonight while I was working on my mother's laptop, and oh boy, does it feel so BAD to play, compared to Sage. If I were to describe it, I would say playing Sage is like sailing on a motor boat on the open water, while WHM feels like you're running through mud while you have ankle weights around your legs. Holy being 2.5 still, only 1 charge of Tetra, Lilies feeling underwhelming in general. Not even mentioning MP issues, among other things.

I'm sure there's more I could say, but I think everyone already has beaten me to the punch already.

I WANT to like White Mage, but right now, it's absolutely tedious to play.

[Azurarok]

I think they should add a Swiftcast effect to new Thin Air and make the next cast instant. I'd actually remember to use it with something other than Raise then.

Though the other issue with new Thin Air is with how it doesn't play well with Presence of Mind at all. Would've made a clear burst window had they kept old Thin Air but made it 2 charges and lined up the charge time with Presence of Mind's 120s. Alternatively they could also just reduce MP cost while Presence of Mind's active.

Also regarding Liturgy of the Bell, much like what others have said, I don't like how long its reload is for how short it lasts, but I really don't like how it's largely a delayed heal, which is more AST's thing when WHM's style tends to be more reactive. That's what makes WHM the beginner/prog-friendly healer imo. It'd be way more fun to use if it lasted much longer and had a button to manually use its stacks, not to mention actually making it useful for mob pulls in dungeons.

[elioaiko]

Also regarding Liturgy of the Bell, much like what others have said, I don't like how long its reload is for how short it lasts, but I really don't like how it's largely a delayed heal, which is more AST's thing when WHM's style tends to be more reactive. That's what makes WHM the beginner/prog-friendly healer imo. It'd be way more fun to use if it lasted much longer and had a button to manually use its stacks, not to mention actually making it useful for mob pulls in dungeons.

I believe their intention wasn't to be an AST-like ability as it only reacts to damage done to the healer, making it reactive-only.

But it's just a bad Earthly Star–triple the CD and no way to control it.

It's really like they sat there and looked at both Macrocosmos and Lilybell and said that "that's balanced right?"

I love Macrocosmos but I think they dropped the ball on Lilybell and only added more clunkiness to WHM. They added an ability that goes 100% usage during a very specific mechanic and is not used in every fight and locking it behind a 3min CD? Lmao.

The dev team is really scared to do anything with WHM and the more people say that they like WHM how it is will only continue this vicious cycle of people complaining about other healers being too OP and that instead of asking for buffs for WHM, they want every healer to be brought to WHM's level. Then the devs see that SCH and AST were nearly unplayable in 5.0 and buffed them to high hell and leave WHM to rot because who would have guessed? WHM's design is terrible and has always been.

Instead of pushing the devs more when they gave us the lily system for improvement and development on it, people just sat there in silence because finally WHM has become playable and on par–only at the cost of destroying AST and SCH's creative designs.

In the end, the devs don't want to fix WHM and mid-expansion fixes for healers is rare and certain not to the extent of DPS jobs reworks.