Endwalker White Mage has Issues

[Silver-Strider]

I don't think Holy's cast time is an issue - it's working as intended. Holy has a stun while the other AoE damage spells for healers do not, and its very OP for that. It makes dungeon healing much clunkier, but ironically makes lilies better as you can use them to weave. If they reduced Holy's cast they would remove the stun and I think no one wants that.

Let me tell you why the cast time on Holy not being adjusted is a problem. The stun is NOT indefinite. You get 3 stuns before enemies become immune and at that point you are constantly having to move in order to avoid any potential AoEs that are thrown at your position, meaning that because of the 2.5s cast time, you usually end up having to cancel your AoE in order to not get hit and potentially killed in a trash pull. None of the other healers have this issue. SCH and SGE's are instant cast and can get out of the way no problem and AST is ranged and was never a problem to begin with. WHM loses out on damage every time it has to move for its AoE and for the healer that's entire purpose is damage is crap design, especially when it's already bad enough that you have to wait an extra second for the actual stun to take effect due to the animation delay.

I fail to see how exactly a 1.5s cast time on Holy would be OP.
The recast timer is still 2.5s so other than getting that stun out 1s earlier, it doesn't really change anything.

[execlinca]

Let me tell you why the cast time on Holy not being adjusted is a problem. The stun is NOT indefinite. You get 3 stuns before enemies become immune and at that point you are constantly having to move in order to avoid any potential AoEs that are thrown at your position, meaning that because of the 2.5s cast time, you usually end up having to cancel your AoE in order to not get hit and potentially killed in a trash pull. None of the other healers have this issue. SCH and SGE's are instant cast and can get out of the way no problem and AST is ranged and was never a problem to begin with. WHM loses out on damage every time it has to move for its AoE and for the healer that's entire purpose is damage is crap design, especially when it's already bad enough that you have to wait an extra second for the actual stun to take effect due to the animation delay.

I fail to see how exactly a 1.5s cast time on Holy would be OP.
The recast timer is still 2.5s so other than getting that stun out 1s earlier, it doesn't really change anything.

I know what you're saying, but to adjust Holy's cast time they would have to add that special something to other healer's AoE (which they said they would I'm sure? But it didn't materialise).

It's just a bit more difficult to use, which is fair when the stun is so powerful. It shouldn't be as effortless as AST. I don't think it would be balanced to be the same cast time as AST while AST doesn't have any additional power (sure, I would accept Holy being ranged instead? It would probably match better since both shield healers are melee). Not that I think AST needs buffing right now, I just think asking for 1.5 cast time on Holy is one of the things that seems excessive and could easily make the devs ignore the other criticisms that are much bigger issues.

[Liam_Harper]

I don't think Holy's cast time is an issue - it's working as intended.

WHM in a nutshell. Clunky, restricted, limited abilities because "they're so powerful, so it has to be that way!".

I read things like "Holy is to offset WHM's lack of oGCD's" and "it has to cause mandatory clipping because the stun is good!" and wonder what on earth they're designing. They give a class an aoe stun, sounds great, but now it's locked into having less oGCD's and a clunky cast time. Where does that leave WHM in raids, where the offset for their lack of oGCD's doesn't do anything? And what happens when the stun duration expires?

It's sad, but honestly if ripping the stun away from Holy meant the devs gave WHM aoe an instant cast and multiple strong oGCD's to weave, then throw the stun out the window.
Same with other things. If Benediction was a 25-30% heal on a quarter the CD, great. Lilybell on half potency but a 1m cd and detonate option? I'd take it. No damage on Assize in exchange for 2 charges and 10% mana restored. Sure.

It wouldn't be great design, but if WHM's abilities being "powerful" in niche situations is designing the class into being rubbish, then they're better off scrapping that identity.

[execlinca]

WHM in a nutshell. Clunky, restricted, limited abilities because "they're so powerful, so it has to be that way!".

I read things like "Holy is to offset WHM's lack of oGCD's" and "it has to cause mandatory clipping because the stun is good!" and wonder what on earth they're designing. They give a class an aoe stun, sounds great, but now it's locked into having less oGCD's and a clunky cast time. Where does that leave WHM in raids, where the offset for their lack of oGCD's doesn't do anything? And what happens when the stun duration expires?

It's sad, but honestly if ripping the stun away from Holy meant the devs gave WHM aoe an instant cast and multiple strong oGCD's to weave, then throw the stun out the window.
Same with other things. If Benediction was a 25-30% heal on a quarter the CD, great. Lilybell on half potency but a 1m cd and detonate option? I'd take it. No damage on Assize in exchange for 2 charges and 10% mana restored. Sure.

It wouldn't be great design, but if WHM's abilities being "powerful" in niche situations is designing the class into being rubbish, then they're better off scrapping that identity.

Yeah you're totally right. Nerf Liturgy so I can actually use it on cd, nerf benediction so I can use it on cd, and I would generally have a much better time. I would be happy with making the lilies oGCDs too. Holy doesn't feel like much of a problem to me probably mostly because dungeons aren't that important to me optimisation wise, but if they are using it to justify the rest of WHM's kit then whatever. It is all so mismatched right now.

Stellar Explosion is so good and it's a blend of Assize and Liturgy... I would love a detonate option on Liturgy lol. It's so useful. Liturgy really does not need to be as powerful as it is because nothing in the game is designed around NEEDING that power (or I would have more spots where I could actually use it fully) so its power is just a detriment at this point. I would resent that Assize change greatly but hey, I guess if it is the price to pay for our horrendous recovery...

[MiaShino]

WHM in a nutshell. Clunky, restricted, limited abilities because "they're so powerful, so it has to be that way!".

Square; "White Mage is too stronk in Dungeons, make it clunky with Holy clipping."

Also Square; "We give Warrior self bene on 25 second cooldown unga bunga."

????????

[Semirhage]

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, White Mage was the weakest of the healers by a hilarious margin, but yet still any suggestion to make it stronger is met with "but you have to be careful, or White Mage could become OP!"

Thank god the developers are so careful to make sure WHM doesn't become OP. In fact they're so careful that it's got frequent flyer miles on weakest-in-role.

[Azurarok]

If anything shortening Holy's cast would put it on par with Astro's Gravity, which has a shorter cast and is ranged.

I think the current MP cost of CureII would be more acceptable if it charges the Blood Lily and/or Freecure was a 100% proc and/or Freecure worked on/gets procced by more than just CureII.

Also, instead of Liturgy being on a long CD with 5 stacks that we rarely fully use, have something charge up stocks for it and allow the ability to be used whenever it has a stock or two. Then have using Liturgy spend all stocks you have at once, converting them to the number of stacks it has.